Ball python "mills" *rant* (Not trying to offend anyone)

[Coleslaw007]

So I read a post in a thread somewhere that reminded me of an aspect of this hobby that bothers me quite a bit and not wanting to hijack that thread, I figured I would rant about it in my own darned thread

This would be the snake equivalent to puppy mills. People who see these animals as money-making breeding machines and little else. I have heard from more than one person (not necessarily on here) that their goal every year is to basically start power feeding their females the second they've laid so that they can lay even more next year; lather, rinse, repeat. I guess I understand that money is a strong motivator and BP's are a way to make money buuuuuut they are LIVING, FEELING, ANIMALS!!!

The idea of making them breed year after year after year just so you don't loose out on any money is repulsive to me. That's gotta be detrimental in some way. Every other year okay if they are healthy and well kept, and back to back sometimes if they really plump back up quickly and seem ready to go again. But please don't breed them to death. I look at my snakes and thinking of any of them being treated that way makes my heart feel sick. It almost makes me not want to breed so I can be sure I won't be selling any snakes that may be treated in this manner. That's not even touching on the people who hear they can "make lots of money breeding ball pythons" and get them but don't even bother to learn how to properly take care of them or are just too frugal to spend the money on proper basic husbandry tools or veterinary care.


Okay... well, I think I feel better. I just get sad thinking of how a lot of people treat animals: like they're expendable or just a product.

And to all of you who actually care about your snakes and really try to treat them the best you can and give them a good life: thank you, you're awesome!!!!

[The Serpent Merchant]

I don't see any issues with breeding 2 years in a row... if the female gets back up to size on a normal diet, and is willing to breed. If she wants to take the year off, fine by me. (i'll be disappointed sure... but I won't try to force her)

I'm not in it for the money, but I do have some projects that I would like to complete in a reasonable time frame. I think that you just have to know your animals capabilities and use good judgment.

I agree with you that BP's shouldn't be thought of as money making machines, but I don't see any issue with making money off of them if it is done in a respectful and responsible way.

[Skittles1101]

I don't think I've come across too many people on this forum that are solely in it for the money, so I'm really not sure where you are seeing this. The people (generally) on this forum, especially the people that frequent it, absolutely 100% adore this hobby, and everything that comes along with it...which includes breeding. I also would like to know where you got your info that it is not perfectly healthy for snakes to breed every year? Can you provide links and/or citations?

[angllady2]

While I see very few people here who feel this way, they are out there.

I do know where you are coming from, it sickens me to hear people say they want their females back on food as soon as possible so they'll be able to lay an even bigger clutch and make them more money. That to me is wrong.

For me, I want my females back eating because I hate the thought of her going 6 or 7 months without eating. Pregnancy is tough, and birth even harder. I want her to be able to rest and recover her strength and get back in top condition, even if it takes two years for her to reach that point. When I see how pitifully thin and drained my girls are after laying, I just want them to feel better soon. And if I don't think she's ready to breed again in 6 months or so when the season starts, then she's getting a break until I think she is.

And I refuse to feed her extra heavy just to get her back to some magic number that says she can be bred again. Numbers mean diddly squat. She needs to be nice and round and muscular again, so that I think she is capable of having more eggs.

And I don't have a problem breeding my girls two years in a row if I feel they are in good enough condition. I learned early on that if she doesn't think she's ready for more eggs, you aren't going to get any, no matter what your numbers tell you. But I draw the line at two. Even if she thinks she's ready again, I reserve the right to tell her no, wait until next year.

Gale

[SNIKTTIME]

I can use this past season as an example. I have a normal imported female I picked up last year. She was bred and laid on 4/17/11 and laid 4 fertile eggs and 1 slug. She ate 2 days after laying and gained some good weight so I paired her up again this past season.

She laid 6 fertile eggs on 4/11/12 and they all just hatched out perfectly healthy. She is doing great and ate 3 days after laying.

I am not in this for just money, but do understand that this is far from a free hobby. So I can understand peoples desire to make some cash, but definitely wouldn't agree with forcing action for the sole purpose of making quick cash.

Also an interesting note, the female of mine I was talking about locked up within 10 minutes of first introduction, so I think she wanted to go lol

[h00blah]

Based on what I've read on the forums, from big breeder's blogs, and youtube channels, you really can't force ball pythons to do anything...

Sure you can try to offer rodents to your snake as often as possible, but then you run the risk of the animal going off feed! They will eat when they want to!

You can pair every single male to your female, but if she doesn't want to produce eggs, she won't! If they feel that they're ready, they'll go! If you had control over this, nobody would recommend buying MULTIPLE females in case one doesn't want to breed... Heck, same goes with males! Sometimes males are just not ready for the occasion!

Unless the person is literally force-feeding his ball pythons to grow up to size, it doesn't really bother me what everyone else is doing in their breeding venture... Their motives don't bother me either... You say they want to breed for money? How can they guarantee that they'll make money AND mistreat the animals? I want to breed to produce morphs that nobody has seen. I want to produce COOL morph combos, and not so much the 7-gene snakes lol. I'll consider myself successful if I was able to do all of this for free.. If I can hatch out an enchi pied that looks as good as the one in the Ozzyboids collection, I'll feel like I succeeded...

Whoever is breeding "for the money" is sadly misinformed LOL. They've got to be extremely lucky to be able to "get rich quick" .

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

Who are these people who see them as money breeding machines and little else? Breeding and caring for animals is hard, dirty work that is not a free ride for easy money. There are plenty of other hobbies and jobs that pay a lot more and for a lot less work. The love of animals HAS to be there or it quickly becomes seriously not fun. This is the reason there is such a huge turnover in new breeders... here one season and gone the next after they realize the work involved.

I would agree that there may be introductory breeders that start for the money but they quickly quit if they don't also have a genuine love for the animals.

[Andybill]

I want to breed to produce morphs that nobody has seen. I want to produce COOL morph combos, and not so much the 7-gene snakes lol. I'll consider myself successful if I was able to do all of this for free..

Whoever is breeding "for the money" is sadly misinformed LOL. They've got to be extremely lucky to be able to "get rich quick" .

Either they are extremely lucky or they already have a ton of money so as to buy enough that when the time comes to breed them they immediately make a profit...

And I am in the same boat. I dont plan on making any 7 bangers but if i can create some originals and a good majority of my favorite combo morphs and just break even I will be happy! Heck I dont think I have to break even I dont mind spending money on my animals. I spend more on them than I do on myself...

[domenge]

To me its therapy. For some odd reason we all love these snakes and there's something about them that touches our heart. Breeding them is just a bonus and fun to produce that snake you've always wanted and thats mainly what I see it as. Of course I love money and am drove by it. I used to buy and sell snakes a few years ago Im not going to lie. But over time I realized how kind of wrong that was because they aren't a car, or a cell phone, or anything you can buy and sell but they're awesome animals. And since i've been stuck and will continue my breeding journey forEVA.

[domenge]

Sorry for the bad word!