Cage aggression. Wait but Ekans is soo friendly :(

[Quantum Constrictors]

Ok so you all know how I like to brag about how docile and calm Ekans is. Well for the last 2 weeks I have noticed this is becoming not so true. He has never struck at me before. He has S'ed up and rattled his tail before but thats cuz he had blue eyes from going into shed. Well he has been active and grumpy lately. He usually just goes under the paper towels and stays there for a week until feeding time. Well now he is out and about a few times a day and when I go to pick him up he tries to bite me. Im like HUH?!

NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Except ONE thing. I started to feed him IN his tub instead of OUT in another tub. Nothing else has changed. All his temps are still right. Husbandry is right. Feeding is right. The only thing that has changed is me feeding him in tub instead of out of it like I originally had been doing.

So I am going to start feeding him out of his tub again. I am thinking about doing it with my BP too. But I might not since she has been in-tub fed her whole life and I can pick her up from in the tub no problem.

What do you all think?

-reptiliachnids

[Rob]

I think you might be looking into the animals new "aggressiveness" a little too much, you said yourself it hasn't bit you yet. Cage aggression due to feeding in tub is a myth. IMO there is no need to feed outside of the enclosure.

[The Serpent Merchant]

I think you might be looking into the animals new "aggressiveness" a little too much, you said yourself it hasn't bit you yet. Cage aggression due to feeding in tub is a myth. IMO there is no need to feed outside of the enclosure.

x2

[Quantum Constrictors]

But is it TRULY a myth? I mean. We live in a universe on infinite possibilities. So saying it is a myth in its self is not true. I mean every snake is different WHY cant it be aggression from feeding in the tub. This snake has never had a problem before I started feeding in the tub and the only and I mean THE only thing that has changed, is feeding in the tub.

So I am going to start feeding out of tub again. If his attitude changes. Then cool. If it doesnt then he is going to get more out of cage time then 5 ish minutes a day.

[The Serpent Merchant]

I have 7 snakes, (4 ball pythons, 1 carpet python, 1 dumeril's boa, and 1 desert king snake) All of them are fed in their cage every single time. Not a single one has issues with cage aggression.

Cage aggression is full of flawed logic. If you think that a snake can't tell the difference between a rodent and you then you aren't giving them enough credit. A snake uses multiple senses to identify potential prey... smell (jacobson's organ), heat pits, and eye sight. unless you smell/have the same thermal signature/look like a rodent A snake simply is not going to think that you are food.

now this it not to say that you will never get bit, but if you do it isn't because the snake is trying to eat you. Most likely something that you might not even notice is different. (like with blood pythons if you move something in their cage, many times they won't eat... things that we don't notice they do. I'm not saying that cage aggression is 100% impossible (as you said in our universe there are endless possibilities) but it is improbable.

You are much more likely to get bit feeding a snake in a separate container since you have to directly handle the snake right after eating, to put it back in its cage.

Your plan is a good one, try feeding in a separate container, if it works, great... but honestly I doubt that it will.

[angllady2]

Just a thought, are you positive you are feeding enough ?

I had something very similar happen with me and one of my favorite balls. Nothing had changed recently, husbandry the same, feeding the same, all that jazz. Then out of the blue she's snapping at me every time I walk past the tub, she's lunging at me when I go to pick her up, the works.

I was upset to say the least. After three weeks of this, I was complaining to hubby about it, and he asks me have I offered her bigger prey. I of course had not, because I was sure the prey she was eating was adequate. She begged to differ. As soon as I bumped her prey size, she turned into a doll again.

Not saying it is the cause, but it might be something to consider.

Gale

[Dracoluna]

I know it's not the common thought on this forum that feeding in a cage can cause aggression, but with corns that have been fed in their cages, I have seen some where just opening the top causes them to go into full feeding mode. Feed them outside their cage, no aggression. Switch to inside the cage, the aggression starts because they get into feeding mode when the top opens. Switch back, and after awhile, the snake no longer goes into feeding mode when the lid is opened. I have not seen any signs of this with my balls and continue to feed them in their cages, but I will never again allow any of my corns to be fed in their cages. As it is, I spent a few minutes dislodging one of my females off my finger tonight (corn) because I haven't been taking her out except to feed. Corns are generally much more aggressive feeders and when they get into that feeding mode, they don't seem to care if it's a mouse or a gloved finger. That is my mistake for not taking her out more because I've had/seen this problem before. It's one of those things which I think is more species/individual dependent. Balls are not the aggressive feeders that corns are and corns will strike and try to eat anything when they are in a feeding response mode. It doesn't always take scent to do it either unfortunately. On the other side of things, I have a couple who are lazy feeders and I could probably feed them anywhere and they would never have an issue. The only ones I've ever seen to respond like that are those with very strong/aggressive feeding responses.

[Quantum Constrictors]

I feed him the right size prey. He just got moved up to hoppers about 3 weeks ago from fuzzys. So I dont think it is size of prey.

BUT. I was thinking. Could it be that he his hungry but not due to size of food but how OFTEN. I feed him every 7 days do you think I should bump him to every 5?

[Daybreaker]

Could it be that he his hungry but not due to size of food but how OFTEN. I feed him every 7 days do you think I should bump him to every 5?

I feed my smaller corn and king every 5 days and my bigger corn (almost 600 grams) every 7 days. I too feed all my snake in their tubs/enclosures and I have yet to have anyone mistake me for food when I reach in to get them.

[Dracoluna]

I would recommend trying to switch back for a few weeks just to see what's going on. Also look at his feeding schedule. From what I've read on other posts, Ekans is young and they tend to make more 'mistakes' about what is food than the older corns do. They also go into feeding mode more easily. Are you trying to take him out to handle him in between feedings? Also, if you're worried about a bite, wear a light glove. The bites don't hurt, but it helps lower the instinct to shake them off which can hurt them when they hit the floor or possibly break teeth. That's precisely why I wear one with my more aggressive feeders. Check to make sure he's also getting large enough meals often enough. I had several go into feeding mode tonight simply because it's been 12 days since they were fed (death in the family or it would have been their usual 7) and that even included my generally docile ones. Corns like to eat and unlike balls aren't real picky about what. Kitai tried eating a 15 lb. dog once and wasn't happy when I dislodged her (long story) and tonight, Astarte had started to work her way towards the tip of my thumb like she would towards the head of a mouse. The glove couldn't have been that tasty but she was sure she was starving and was willing to hit the first thing that moved.