Desert female documentation for fertility?

[h00blah]

Since people write up documentation that guarantees genetics of a heterozygous snake, why don't people write up documentation for desert females saying that they WILL produce viable eggs? The people who are selling them seem to be telling their customers that deserts are 100% fertile and that everyone will see soon enough... If they're that confident, why not write up documentation? If the snake doesn't reproduce, then a full refund is in order? I don't know how it would work... this is just a thought I had when I got to work ...

[1nstinct]

It would never work. You could do the same for any morph, or animal but it doesn't mean they will lay viable eggs. You could do it with a pastel but it doesn't mean that she will breed and lay eggs. Every snake is different and not all snakes will breed it depends on the individual animal.
Tom

[h00blah]

It would never work. You could do the same for any morph, or animal but it doesn't mean they will lay viable eggs. You could do it with a pastel but it doesn't mean that she will breed and lay eggs. Every snake is different and not all snakes will breed it depends on the individual animal.
Tom

Right. But that's why I brought up hets. What if you just have crap luck and don't produce any hets? Similar situation to deserts not laying eggs. Even 1 egg that goes full term and hatches a little baby ball python would mean that the documentation is good!

[naturesbeautybreeder]

I see what both of y'all are saying but instinct if she doesn't lay eggs at al is different than being infertile or atleast I would think being infertile would mean it would be able to lay eggs but they would not survive or at least that's how I would look at it

[1nstinct]

With hets, the breeder is guaranteeing that the snake has the gene, they are not guaranteeing that the snake will breed and produce viable eggs. There are so many variables to breeding that I don't think anyone would put their name and reputation on for one specific. And plus say the desert doesn't lay viable clutches the first time being breed how long you you wait. Do you tell the customer you need to try for x amount of seasons before a return could be refunded?
Don't get me wrong it would be amazing for every snake to come with a guarantee that the snake will breed but mother nature doesn't always work like you expect, so I'm pretty sure it will never happen
Tom

[Meltdown Morphs]

I don't think that would be a good idea cause there are a several other reasons why a female may not reproduce, aside from the possible issues with the desert itself.
The snake may not feel its body ready.
The males used in the breeding may potentially be to blame for a bad clutch as well.
The owners husbandry may not be to the snakes liking for reproduction.
The snake simply doesn't want to.
Possibly a hidden illness hindering them from reproducing.

My First clutch that came from a 2004 CH female, though I obtained her in 2009 she was still a virgin at 2400g so this was also her first clutch as well. Thats about 6 yrs before any eggs came from this female(Not counting the 2 years where she simply wasn't mature age-wise), I had tired to breed her every year but with no results till this year.(repeated follicle reabsorption despite her size and age).That could make someone think there are some reproductive issues with her, but in the end she laid 9 perfectly fertile eggs that went full term.

Some people seem too impatient that even if they got a write up guarantee and they tried breeding the female for a year or two with no eggs they would jump the the conclusion that they are infertile and start calling for a refund when the snake may actually be fine.
That seems more likely since there are so many questions floating around about the deserts fertility some people may jump to conclusions.

[h00blah]

And plus say the desert doesn't lay viable clutches the first time being breed how long you you wait. Do you tell the customer you need to try for x amount of seasons before a return could be refunded?

This exact statement can be made about guaranteeing hets.

I see your point in which hets can come with 100% guarantees that the gene is present, and you can't guarantee the will to breed.

This post is assuming that the snake does eventually lock, ovulate, then lay eggs. The person selling desert females are so sure that they will lay eggs, why not create documentation? If the desert lays infertile eggs, then what? Same with 100% hets.

What if a breeder accidentally mixed a non-het with a het, then it didn't prove out it's first year? Is there a set amount of seasons that will cause the person to return the snake? Get a refund? What? o_O?

[Royal Hijinx]

This will be a moot point when Desert females cost $200.

[snakesRkewl]

How is anyone going to write up a document for a snake that hasn't shown the ability to give good eggs for anyone

The genetic documentation I provide states that the animal in question photographed on the paper does in fact carry the recessive trait I'm claiming it does.
That's the whole guarantee right there, nothing in it claims that the snake will breed or deliver eggs, that's just not going to happen.

[Slim]

Had this conversation yesterday over at Amir Soleymani's shop with a couple of folks who don't have much of an online presence, but who's snakes you've all probably seen at expos. The general consensus is we will see Russians on Mars before we see viable eggs from a Desert female...

But, as long as folks keep buying $1700 Deserts females, hope springs eternal!