Garter Tips and Dealing With WC Animals

[Valentine Pirate]

I've been playing with an idea to start a project to produce some captive bred garter snakes of the local species (Puget Sound garters, Northwestern garters). I don't care about making money, the sole purpose is curiosity and having specimens of the species that started my interests in reptiles at a very early age (I remember catching those things everywhere!). I want CBB but haven't been able to find breeders of these guys, so hey, why not try myself? If anyone knows of a breeder that produces these I'd love to get in touch.

Currently I'm working on finding out the legal side of it. Contacted the local herp society and scanned through a headache's worth of state legislature. I haven't found anything clearly stating that it's illegal to keep them/catch them, but until I get a clear answer I'm simply doing research. Hopefully when the herp society gets back to me they'll be able to shed some light on it.

My main concern is that if this project does happen that I'll be dealing with wild caught individuals who probably won't be terribly happy about the whole situation. I've been reading on garter care in general and the diet in particular seems challenging, even more so with an animal not accustomed to someone having to give it food. Does anyone have some experience with garters and have some tips for a total newbie? I figure to protect my collection I'll also have to take the animals in to the vet for parasite treatment and whatever other issues may arise (no such thing as a free snake ).

As I said, I'm not going to go forward with this until I know I'm covered legally, but I'd very much appreciate advice on dealing with wild caught animals and garter snakes in general.

[Simple Man]

The Puget Sound Garter is protected from collection I believe. That's why it's almost impossible to find in the hobby. I'm not entirely certain on Northwesterns. There was a big thread on it somewhere not too long ago. I'll try to look for it for you but I'm a bit foggy on where I read it

Regards,

B

[mikel81]

I've been reading on garter care in general and the diet in particular seems challenging, even more so with an animal not accustomed to someone having to give it food. Does anyone have some experience with garters and have some tips for a total newbie?

I have a WC garter and she is a great eater. Ate worms and fish with no problem until she was big enough to feed a pinky. The first two pinkies needed scented with a nightcrawler but after that she eats them like it is her job.

[cmack91]

To find a breeder, you might have luck at www.thamnophis.com.

As far as the legality of capturing and releasing, i have no idea. Ive (tried to) read through WA's laws on the matter, and like you i couldnt find a clear answer on whether or not its acceptable. If the herp society cant give you a clear answer you could try contacting your local civic center, and they should at least be able to point you in a direction.

[JLC]

I second www.thamnophis.com ...it's an active garter snake forum and the folks there are very likely able to answer your questions about both breeders and legal issues. Not to mention husbandry stuff. It's a great site.

[cmack91]

i just found this: http://forums.pnwhs.org/archive/index.php/t-354.html

heres some that stood out

"Scott 12-28-2006, 20:17
Isn't it illegal to keep wild caught garter snakes in Washington State?

Yes...sorry guys...."

"Beautifylgirl01-13-2007, 18:11
You guys are aware that Puget Sound garter snakes only occur in WA right? I would be very suprised if there were breeding stock that predates the laws (late 70s) that make them illegal to capture and keep.
I wasn't aware that pets and things had moved, however if Bob told you the Puget Sound garters were from OR he was lying or had been mislead.

Hey all I'm new to this Forum, but I am over at www.thamnophis.com and it looks like the forums have more about BOB over there. Check out this link/post prior to buying these "blues" from him.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...und-blues.html

Just so ya all know, I'm not bashing anyone, just posting what has happened to others.
Good luck.
Brittany"

I couldnt find anything on any Govt sites, but it sounds to me like its a no-go from the quick searches i did.

[EricWright]

Check your local hunting and fishing laws. You can usually find the free book at walmart that explains all hunting and fishing regulations. In NC I know for a fact it covers the collection of wild reptiles in the book. It's also available free online. Check your state

[RichsBallPythons]

If not mistaken most states prohibit the capture of wild animals for the sole purpose of breeding unless for research and repopulating the wild numbers. Even then you must be approved for by the state fish and wild life and carry a permit system.


I wouldnt even bother catching and breeding. Buy captive if you want to breed to save you the legal problems

[Valentine Pirate]

The Puget Sound Garter is protected from collection I believe. That's why it's almost impossible to find in the hobby. I'm not entirely certain on Northwesterns. There was a big thread on it somewhere not too long ago. I'll try to look for it for you but I'm a bit foggy on where I read it

Regards,

B

Too bad about that The Puget garters are so pretty. I'll check around for the Northwestern stuff though! Thank you!

To find a breeder, you might have luck at www.thamnophis.com.

As far as the legality of capturing and releasing, i have no idea. Ive (tried to) read through WA's laws on the matter, and like you i couldnt find a clear answer on whether or not its acceptable. If the herp society cant give you a clear answer you could try contacting your local civic center, and they should at least be able to point you in a direction.

Thank you for the link! I'll go there and ask around. Looks like the Puget garters are out of the question, but my hopes are up for the northwesterns. However, if I can find someone who breeds them already I'm going to just stick with that xD

i just found this: http://forums.pnwhs.org/archive/index.php/t-354.html

heres some that stood out

"Scott 12-28-2006, 20:17
Isn't it illegal to keep wild caught garter snakes in Washington State?

Yes...sorry guys...."

"Beautifylgirl01-13-2007, 18:11
You guys are aware that Puget Sound garter snakes only occur in WA right? I would be very suprised if there were breeding stock that predates the laws (late 70s) that make them illegal to capture and keep.
I wasn't aware that pets and things had moved, however if Bob told you the Puget Sound garters were from OR he was lying or had been mislead.

Hey all I'm new to this Forum, but I am over at www.thamnophis.com and it looks like the forums have more about BOB over there. Check out this link/post prior to buying these "blues" from him.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...und-blues.html

Just so ya all know, I'm not bashing anyone, just posting what has happened to others.
Good luck.
Brittany"

I couldnt find anything on any Govt sites, but it sounds to me like its a no-go from the quick searches i did.

Yeah, I haven't found anything specific but I'll believe Brian when he says that the Puget Sound garters are protected, and it's good to know when someone might be dealing them when they shouldn't (don't want to get caught up in that mess). Sounds like the thamnophis site will have some good info!

Check your local hunting and fishing laws. You can usually find the free book at walmart that explains all hunting and fishing regulations. In NC I know for a fact it covers the collection of wild reptiles in the book. It's also available free online. Check your state

Thank you for the tips. Fish and game links took me to the state legislature website, and they had some fuzzy looking laws about wildlife collection but they referenced deadly exotics (venomous, etc) and game animals (mostly different species of deer). I'll check out the hunting and fishing regulation resources though, there's a huge outdoor sports store that has a help counter for hunters that might have some more info.

If not mistaken most states prohibit the capture of wild animals for the sole purpose of breeding unless for research and repopulating the wild numbers. Even then you must be approved for by the state fish and wild life and carry a permit system.


I wouldnt even bother catching and breeding. Buy captive if you want to breed to save you the legal problems

I'm going to check out the garter website and hope that someone has some captive bred animals already. I don't have any particular desire to deal with all the legal issues, so if it gets too complicated and I can't find any breeders I'll probably just scrap the whole idea. As interesting as breeding to help wild populations sounds, I'm just in this in a hobby capacity for the moment.


Thank you to everyone for replies! Was getting pretty discouraged trying to sort it out myself, and though it isn't looking too promising it makes me feel much better to be armed with more info and resources

[John1982]

http://www.albinogartersnake.com/pri...ent_sound.html