Help! My ball wants to eat me! D:

[Dember]

Now that the title has gotten your attention, I hope this isn't the wrong place to ask this, and if it is, please tell me so I'll know where to go and won't make the same mistake in the future.

I'm having a problem with my new ball python.
I've only owned two in my life, including this one, but I've done a great deal of research on proper care and maintenance, both from books and of course online, as well as asking breeders and experienced owners. I've owned and been around other animals (including other reptiles) since I was a baby, but I will admit that I am indeed new to snakes.
I can go into more detail about how mine are housed and cared for, if desired. However, this question is not concerning health, but behavior.

See, I got my first BP (male, a little under eight months old) a few months ago, from from a reputable breeder -- has only owned and bred for a few years but takes excellent care of his animals, provides the correct temperatures/humidities, only breeds animals of the proper size/age; no bad sheds, mites, scale rot, belly rot, or other health problems whatsoever.
All of his babies were handled regularly except after feeding or if not interested in eating for whatever reason (he never sells any unless they're eating very well from tongs) and as such these are some of the least-shy and most friendly, social BPs I've ever heard of, let alone met or been lucky enough to own.

After meeting mine, two people I know have actually bought one from the same breeder, one of whom previously disliked snakes -- my boy is quite the little ambassador for BPs!


And then I got offered a free female ball python from someone on craigslist.
Well, after having such an excellent experience with my little male, of course I jumped at the chance to have her and get a lady-friend for my guy, maybe even breed them myself someday.

This girl is 1.5 - 2 years old, and approximately 1200 grams. When I met her, she was very relaxed, even more docile than my boy usually is, and he's as calm as can be even when strangers and little children are petting and holding him. I was really pleased with her.

As it turns out, however, she has been fed in her enclosure for at least several months, if not much longer.

Now, I always wondered if the "never feed your snake in its enclosure, it'll become aggressive and bite you as soon as you open the lid!" was a bit of an exaggeration, mainly due to all of the owners who say they have done this for years with no problems whatsoever (you hear this about a lot of stuff, don't you? "I haven't had any problems YET"?)

Well, regardless of how successful anyone else feeds their snake in said snake's enclosure, I personally NEVER would, and (aside from worrying about substrate getting swallowed and hurting them) this girly is a prime reason of exactly why I would never risk it.

The moment I even walk BY the enclosure, she's coiling up her neck to strike, following me with her head no matter where I move, rigid as a board and snapping at the glass like a maniac!

If you think this is bad, opening the enclosure to mist it is a nightmare; I usually have to throw a pillow case over her head and watch her like a hawk to make sure she doesn't "peek" out from under it -- advice from my other BP's breeder who uses this method to get highly irritable females off of their eggs.

If I don't cover her head, she gives her very best attempts to nail me, whether my hands or even my face if I'm leaning a bit too close. She hasn't gotten me so far, but it's not for lack of effort; if anything, I've just been very careful and I have the reflexes borne of someone who makes most of her money by clipping the nails of foul-tempered cats and dogs.

The oddity? This is not, as far as I am aware, aggression.
In fact, she never behaves defensively or acts as if she's frightened or stressed; never hisses or balls up, just tries to bite me as if I tied raw pork chops around my ankles and danced in front of a rabid badger.

How do I know it's not aggression? Because as soon as you remove her from the enclosure (NOT an easy task, let me assure you), she's as chill and lax as an old limp water hose, not an ounce of the urge or intention to bite.

I contacted her previous owner with my suspicion, and sure enough, he's been dangling rats inside of her tank for ages.
Key word: tank.
I can even put her in a plastic tub (when searching for urates or droppings -- no way I'm doing that while she's still in there!) and she remains as docile as can be...because she hasn't been brainwashed to think "this specific type of enclosure = FOOD TIME" in anything but a tank.

I originally thought she just might be REALLY hungry, so I let snarf down three small rats (F/T, I would never feed live under any circumstances) and she finished those off in a matter of minutes and was still looking for more after the third, but my breeder friend advised me not to offer any more, to prevent her from having trouble digesting such a big meal and throwing them up, thereby wasting a meal and all of the energy used to constrict and then eat them.
Also, in his words, "a half-digested rat is something that no one should ever have to smell."

Even when there's no way she can still be hungry, she's a highly enthusiastic eater and as such, continues to strike at any warm object she sees outside of her enclosure (just about gave my cat a heart attack).

My breeder friend told me that regular handling can often help tame an aggressive snake, but I truly do not believe that this is aggression of any form -- just a very eager feeding response, with no more anger present than a dog who mistakes your hand for a tasty treat after you've been handling meat.

I plan to build her an enclosure reminiscent of the style of "vision" cages, and I assume that'll eliminate the problem (like when she's in a tub), but what about until then?

I'm honestly worried that she's going to hurt herself if she keeps this up, but I have no idea what I can do to prevent it or get her to stop.

If she were a dog or cat or something, I'd probably squirt her in the face with a spray bottle so she would at least learn to think twice about nipping at everything she sees, but I don't know how effective or advisable that would be with a snake, and I'd be worried about it being somehow harmful to her.

Any advice at all would be SO highly appreciated, you have no idea. Please help or direct me to someone who can, and thank you in advance!



P.S. Anyone know why she has those tiny white dots on her, like the one on the back of her neck? The breeder I know is baffled by them, said they might be scars from rat bites if she was ever fed live, but she does have a scar on her head from her previous owner having left an enclosure only half-latched, and she tried to squeeze out but got her head stuck and pulled it back in, scraping it.
That scar is jet black, as opposed to the little pure white scales here and there -- she's only got three or four of them, so I'm assuming she's not some really-really-REALLY low-white piebald or something ridiculous like that, but..any clues as to what they are, or why she's got them? I've never seen any other Normal BP with them.
Thanks again~!

[Daybreaker]

Such tiny text...try to use larger txt in the future since I had a hard time reading it without zooming in.

For her striking in her tank, could she be insecure in the tank that's making her wig out? Is it very open while the tub you had her in was more cave-like and secure? If she's flipping out in the tank why don't you just keep her in a tub if that's where she's acting the best?

Also, I don't know what the white markings are: do you have larger up close photos of them?

And as for feeding in the enclosure, that's the ONLY way I feed and I have yet to have a snake become cage/tub (I only use tubs) aggressive for it. For swallowing substrate, I use paper towels so I don't have that issue. I personally recommend people to feed in their enclosures over not, and if they use aspen you can put a paper plate down with the feeder atop it (if feeding F/T).

[The Serpent Merchant]

I agree with the post above, but would also like ask what your temperatures/humidity are, most cage aggression that I have seen stems from improper husbandry or a hungry snake.

[Kinra]

It sounds to me like she is stressed. How long have you had her? Reptiles need time to adjust to new surrounds just like any other animal would.

Feeding in the tank does not cause tank aggression. I have around 30 snakes and I feed them ALL in their cages. Feeding in the cage is less stressful on ball pythons and tends to be easier when you have more reptiles. I have a few that more than likely wouldn't eat for me if I tried to feed them outside of their tubs.

I've also been bit before without being hissed at. You won't always get hissed at and they won't always ball up. A tense snake is a stressed and defensive snake. She is hoping that striking at you will get you to leave her alone. With my snakes I see that if their whole body is tense they are more than likely going to strike at me and they are stressed, when feeding they don't tense up like that.

How is your tank setup? Is it open on all 4 sides? Putting black contact paper on three of the four sides could help her relax a little more. Another thing you can try to do is take a paper towel tub and gently tap her on the head to snap her out of strike mode before you pick her up. I did this with a few of mine when I first got them and now I can just reach in and pick them up. I hope that helps.

[Dember]

"Such tiny text...try to use larger txt in the future since I had a hard time reading it without zooming in."
Sorry! The normal size was really large on my screen and looked even more like a wall of text than it does now. Is there any way to edit my first post here?

"For her striking in her tank, could she be insecure in the tank that's making her wig out? Is it very open while the tub you had her in was more cave-like and secure?"
Not at all. She has two hides, one on the cool side and one at the hot spot; and a lot of fake greenery which blocks the entire back wall as well as the sides, so it's not as "open" as any average glass tank. She was kept in a glass tank before, so I wouldn't think that's the problem.
On the contrary, the tub is about two feet tall, and she had no hide whatsoever (since she was only in it for me to spot-clean the main enclosure), just a water dish on paper towels. The tub was a translucent color, so she could definitely still see me and the other animals outside of it. She watched upon occasion, but wasn't really interested and mostly just coiled up around her water bowl and relaxed.

"If she's flipping out in the tank why don't you just keep her in a tub if that's where she's acting the best?"
Because even with the heating pad I had under it and a space-heater aimed at one end, there's no way it's warm enough for her to stay on a long-term basis.
A few other reasons are because I don't think it's secure enough to keep her safe from escaping (it's just a snapping lid, not one with latches) and because I worry about my other animals tipping it over or otherwise disrupting it and injuring her or letting her out.

"Also, I don't know what the white markings are: do you have larger up close photos of them?"
A few cell phone photos that I took to show the breeder I mentioned, but nothing of very good quality. I'll try to get some next time I have her out.
They're definitely not lost scales or anything, rather, a few abstracts scales are simply liquid-paper white in color. I can't see how it'd be anything harmful, but I guess it's sort of neat.


"And as for feeding in the enclosure, that's the ONLY way I feed and I have yet to have a snake become cage/tub (I only use tubs) aggressive for it. For swallowing substrate, I use paper towels so I don't have that issue. I personally recommend people to feed in their enclosures over not, and if they use aspen you can put a paper plate down with the feeder atop it (if feeding F/T)."
Sorry, but this is something I simply refuse to do, no matter how many times I hear "Well I have never had any problems when doing this."
It's the same way I feel about feeding live animals; it's something I will not, under any circumstances, consent to nor approve of.
It is no trouble for me to move my snakes when it's time to feed them, and neither of mine have any problems with being relocated -- I am willing to bet that this girl is so obsessed with nailing her next rat, she'd probably eat in the middle of a busy freeway during rush hour if you offered it to her there.

Sorry, but I won't consider feeding her inside her enclosure, least of all when I suspect it is the sole reason she has such a behavioral issue in the first place. I would worry about my other snake becoming like this, coming to recognize any tank as a place they're put when it's time to eat, and viewing any hand or even face or body that gets too close as the potential "meal".

Paper towels don't seem like any 100% positive way to guarantee no substrate would get in her mouth, and I refuse to risk an impaction.
Also, I don't use aspen, I hear it holds moisture very poorly and can occasionally mold. I use cypress bark and fir bark with some sphagnum moss, which I hear is the best option from most owners, breeders and informational websites, aside from paper towels and newspaper which, while not bad, is just ugly and annoying to replace so often.


"It sounds to me like she is stressed. How long have you had her? Reptiles need time to adjust to new surrounds just like any other animal would."
I know this. I've had her about two weeks now. If she was stressed, wouldn't she be far more likely to refuse to eat, rather than try to eat even a large cat sitting a few feet away? (the animals can't be what's bothering her; her previous owners had cats and dogs as well.)

"Feeding in the tank does not cause tank aggression. I have around 30 snakes and I feed them ALL in their cages. Feeding in the cage is less stressful on ball pythons and tends to be easier when you have more reptiles. I have a few that more than likely wouldn't eat for me if I tried to feed them outside of their tubs."
Congrats to you and all, but like I said, I would never, EVER risk that. And, getting her to eat is the exact opposite of the problem I am having.

"I've also been bit before without being hissed at. You won't always get hissed at and they won't always ball up. A tense snake is a stressed and defensive snake. She is hoping that striking at you will get you to leave her alone. With my snakes I see that if their whole body is tense they are more than likely going to strike at me and they are stressed, when feeding they don't tense up like that."
I am aware of this too, I have met poorly-socialized ball pythons who simply had a "go die in a fire" personality to all whom they encountered, and as someone who has spent their entire lives around animals, it really is a much different behavior and body language than what I see her displaying here.
Both of mine go very still and alert at feeding time, draw their heads back, stiffen up from the "shoulders" up, and then lash out at the offered thawed rat and give it their all to try to "kill" it. This is the same posture and the same look I get as when I wave a dead rat in their faces.

"How is your tank setup? Is it open on all 4 sides? Putting black contact paper on three of the four sides could help her relax a little more."
See above response. It may be a glass tank, but I've used enough greenery that it has a bit more of a "vision cage" appeal to it, to prevent them from feeling exposed in it.

"Another thing you can try to do is take a paper towel tub and gently tap her on the head to snap her out of strike mode before you pick her up. I did this with a few of mine when I first got them and now I can just reach in and pick them up. I hope that helps."
I've been misting her (not squirting her) in the face when she manages to get the pillow case off her head while I'm in the process of raising her humidity. This gets her to draw back a bit when I'd otherwise have to drop the lid and put some distance between her mouth and myself if I wanted to avoid a strike. I'll see if a light bop on the noggin with an empty paper roll will help discourage her though, if that's what you meant.

I'm not really worried about getting bitten, my little male accidentally got me on the way in my house, when my neighbor's rambunctious young pitbull tried to jump on my head to see what I was carrying.
He was aiming for the pitty's nose, but I put my hand up to shield my snake and push the dog down, so he got my hand instead -- I didn't even know he'd used teeth until I looked later and saw two tiny holes, both about the girth of a strand of hair.
I've received worse damage from a frightened two-pound kitten, I'd definitely pick a snake bite over most other animal bites if I had the choice..except my antisocial little canary, perhaps, who likes to "attack" me when I clip his nails and mostly ends up just being kind of cute.

My only concern would be if she did indeed treat my hand exactly like she does her food, and tried to latch on and constrict. I can't imagine that would be fun with even a tiny snake, let alone one of about three feet long.
I've seen a video of a young BP (previously fed live, of course) who bit and attempted to constrict his new owner's hand, but that was a pretty lazy attempt, not a strike. I'm not about to test it out to find out, but how likely is she to try this, if she did indeed manage to bite me?


"I agree with the post above, but would also like ask what your temperatures/humidity are, most cage aggression that I have seen stems from improper husbandry or a hungry snake."
80 - 85 F ambient temperature, 90 - 95 F hot spot.
50 - 60% humidity, 60 - 70% when shedding.
I feed both of mine once a week (one small rat for my eight month old/20" long male; three small rats for the 1.5/2 year old 1200g female). My male has only ever missed a meal when he first arrived home and when he was deep in shed.


Thank you all for the quick replies!

[cdavidson9]

Agreed w responses above. Also, FYI it is perfectly ok to spray her w a squirtbottle. It will snap her out of that "mode" immediatley, usually, and should be able to pick her up quickly after tagging her w the water. Just make sure its on "spray" and not "stream" I think that woukd be a little un-called for, lol.

I spray my animals down almost everytime they are about to shed. Ya, its not their favorite thing in the world but I have never had a bad shed after spraying then nor have I ever been bit by a frisky snake while trying to pick them up immediatley after a couple squirts. GOOD LUCK!

[heathers*bps]

I agree that she is just stressed. All of my snakes feed in their tubs/enclosures and I've never had an issue.

[Mike41793]

I agree that she is just stressed. All of my snakes feed in their tubs/enclosures and I've never had an issue.

x2

[Skittles1101]

Cage aggression is a myth, made up by the same people who invented "if a snake lays next to you they are sizing you up as food"....you can't honestly believe that do you? People don't tell you it's ideal to feed them inside their enclosure because they feel like it, it's because ball pythons are easily stressed out to begin with, and removing for feeding, putting back right after swallowing can cause stress related symptoms (such as aggression? as well as not eating at all). I have at least 5 that would never eat for me again if I ever tried to remove them for feeding. As for the impaction? They digest bones, what makes you think they can't pass a little reptibark....or whatever you use. My boa has gotten countless mouthfuls of aspen without any kind of impaction. Ball pythons aren't exactly known for having impaction issues. I've had to remove some from his mouth before after a couple days, but that's only to avoid mouth rot, not impaction.

Instances such as "don't house snakes together" you can debunk the "well it hasn't happened to me yet" phrase, as there are countless reasons why it's not ideal for them, but not the cage aggression myth. Here's a lesson on how snakes eat.

There are two types of responses for biting. One, is defensive response, which is the strike and release behavior you are witnessing. The other, is a feeding response, which is obviously what you see when you toss a rat in. Contrary to what most people believe, eye sight is one of the last senses they use. There's a small organ called the Jacobson's organ, which allows them to smell 100x better than we can (cats have it as well). That is the first thing they use, then their heat pits as well as eye sight gives them the rest they need to find the food item (however, blind snakes hunt just fine only using smell). When you reach in, she sees you as a predator, not food. Unless you smell like a rat, you will not get a feeding response bite. It just will not happen, regardless of how many times you have/have not fed in the enclosure, if they don't smell it, it's not there. I'd look up the anatomy of a snake sometime so you can visualize what I'm talking about. I'm against "feeding tubs" because not only are your chances higher of a feeding response bite when reaching in to remove them (rat scent in the air from the rat they just ate), but your also causing added unnecessary stress, as well as chancing regurgitation from handling right after they eat.

Sorry for the novel, but you seem to have gotten some very misguided info from other people and refuse to see it for what it is. Either way, some people do it, and some don't, tomato/tomahto. As far as her behavior, it screams defensive. The options are:
a) she's stressed, for whatever reason. Could be husbandry (how are you reading temps? Some instruments are much less accurate), or could be simply from removing her to eat.
or
b) that's just the kind of snake she is. I have a male orange ghost ball python who's just a jerk....just because he feels like it. Not all ball pythons are cute and cuddly like people assume, it may have just been the luck of the draw and that's her personality.

Either way, reduce the stress, reduce the defensive behavior. Even if it doesn't go away completely, it won't be as extreme. Again, sorry for the novel, I hope she calms down for you. It's never fun having to reach in to change water and have a tooth torpedo coming at you. Good luck

[satomi325]

Hey! I know that snake! It's Bella!
She belonged to my ex-boyfriend. He asked me to take her, but I don't have anymore room for an adult female currently. But I'm happy that you're on here! I've always liked that girl.

I don't think she's aggressive either, so I'm going to have to agree with everyone else and say she is still stressed from the move. How long have you left her by herself since you got her? Most leave their snakes alone for 1-2 weeks before handling to ensure a stress-free transition. And like you said, she has an EXTREME feeding response, but I've never had a problem picking her up in the past. Do you wash your hands before sticking your hand into the enclosure? Maybe she's smelling all your other pets on it? Is your tank in a high traffic area? That could be the cause as your husbandry sounds perfect.
If you're afraid of her striking, you can direct her head away with a paper towel roll.

I don't know what the white marks are either, but I always thought they gave her character.

I feed all of my snakes in their tubs and none of them are aggressive or have struck out at me. There's a poll/thread, here, that talks about feeding in the enclosure, and almost everyone who has commented said their snake shows no difference in temperament.

Regardless, I wish you luck with this girl. I believe she will settle down with time.
I remember Jon telling me he found the perfect home for her. Sounds like you're doing a great job.