Naturalistic Terrarium: Cleaning Crew needed

[Danman88]

So as I've stated before Im in the process of setting up a naturalistic terrarium for my ball python. My goal is for it to be fully sustainable, or as much as is realistically possible. Over the course of my research I have found out that I need a "cleaning crew" consisting of Isopoda and springtails to clean up and break down feces, mold or any other unwanted biological material.

I have two questions. First, where can I purchase a cleaning crew? Second, what specific types and how many do I need for a 75 gallon setup?

[Mike41793]

75 gallons is kinda big for a bp and why dont you just remove the feces instead? I think i commented on one of your other posts about plants and substrate...?

[Missy King]

I got some of those little cleaner bug things at LLL reptile. I don't know that it really did much good, but i also haven't done a fully "natural" set up. I just spot clean. If you don't just spot clean you are gonna have one stinky mess on your hands as it breaks down. I think i also remember you said you were doing mulch or like compost in there, too. I'd be more concerned with that smell than the size of the tank.

75 gallons is fine. Why not? He's going to have lots of things to slither around and have the snake explore. I know i have two snakes who sit there and don't move, and two bps that love to roam around and get excited if i move sticks or things after cleaning. The one is in a 60gal and he loves to roam around sometimes, and climb.

to back up....if you had to slither on the ground i don't think you'd like to smell compost or old feces, or mulch or whatever *lol* if you've been doing this already, does your snake climb sticks or sit in places that don't stink? maybe it doesn't bother the snake, but compost and decomposition do set off gasses...probably not a lot for just the bottom of a tank, but i think your snake would have less health risk without all that.

[kitedemon]

What you are proposing is more complex than just insects it also needs a active water system and live plants as well. I have looked very carefully at a bioactive substrate method and am intrigued. I know a couple that keep royals on bioactive substrates and on small scale (75 gal is small in this case) that it was easier to break up and stir in urinates and remove poop rather than balance insects. Larger scale systems they use insects but think large 3m x 5m x 2m walk in Togo. regional plants and insects basically a micro climate of togo, complete.

Have you read 'The Art of Keeping Snakes' by P. De Vosjoli ? It speaks at length of bioactive systems. My understanding is you need some size to get the system to work properly. It is a little slice of Africa in your home. I want to set up a system myself but am too OCD to do so with out testing everything and I can't get plans to grow. I kill them all I don't know why.

[oliverstwist]

Are you hoping to have a rodent colony also live in there and reproduce at free will?

[Danman88]

@Missy King
I agree with you. I have a hard time seeing how a tank can be to big for a well established young adult. A juvenile or new addition, yes (I have experience with that) but not an established adult. Plus, I got it for a good price ($75).

As far as the compost leaves go it would only be a thin layer (1/2" to 1/4") and would be about 4" down. I'm not sure about the smell, but in theory health problems shouldn't be a problem. In theory, beneficial bacteria and fungus will form on the decomposing leaves and around the roots of the plants contained in the terrarium. These beneficial bacteria and fungi will break down the bad bacteria and biological material from the cleaning crew turning it into beneficial food for the plants.


@Kitedemon
Ya, I've been researching this for about 6 months now. The only problem is that I've been doing it with the intention of housing crested geckos and not a snake, so now I'm having to change gears a little bit. As far as plants go I've been growing half of the plants I plan on using in a 10 gal. "test tank" that I originally planned to use as a starter tank for cresties. As far as water according to what I've read the setup I'm doing with the plants I'm using only requires watering about 2 to 3 times a week and maybe an occasional misting. As far as the clean up crew goes like I said when I read about this it was with the intention of keeping cresties who both eat more often and therefore dedicate more often. If I could get away with not using one that would be great, my only concern would be the breaking down of the compost layer and lack of nutrients being released into the soil and the soil eventually growing stagnant. Like I said though, if I could get away with one that'd be great. If you could guide me toward some information on this I'd be very grateful.

I havent read the book you mentioned, but definetly will look into it. I have however read a book called "Natural Terrariums" (go figure) cover to cover more than once. It is a great beginner book, and does a great job of breaking down the different types of habitats such as: desert, savanah, woodland, swamp/ partial water, the requirements for each one and which animals are suited for each one. If you are interested though you should definitely look into it. I'm kinda OCD myself when it comes to growing plants and getting things in the right place. I've been surprised though at how resilient the plants are that I'm growing now.

[kitedemon]

Not read it myself. The book I read speaks about a space under the substrate that is a water layer. He suggests using water and material from a well established aquarium filter as a starter. It seems logical to me especially if it is a well balanced tank you are starting with. He speaks of watering the substrate (actually a hole to the lower layer) and this water reservoir holds the bacteria that make their way up into the substrate. My friends in germany run the small tank systems this way. The problem they speak about with snakes and insects are you need a lot of insects to deal with snake poop and the system cannot support that many with out steady food, and well snakes don't poop enough. Creasties and bearded dragons are different they poop more and smaller amounts so less insects. I have not done this myself so I am just parroting those with more experience than I. It seems sound to me. the german guys I know don't change the substrate much or all, once a year they remove some but not all of it. It the lowest maintenance once established.

[Danman88]

Not read it myself. The book I read speaks about a space under the substrate that is a water layer. He suggests using water and material from a well established aquarium filter as a starter. It seems logical to me especially if it is a well balanced tank you are starting with. He speaks of watering the substrate (actually a hole to the lower layer) and this water reservoir holds the bacteria that make their way up into the substrate. My friends in germany run the small tank systems this way. The problem they speak about with snakes and insects are you need a lot of insects to deal with snake poop and the system cannot support that many with out steady food, and well snakes don't poop enough. Creasties and bearded dragons are different they poop more and smaller amounts so less insects. I have not done this myself so I am just parroting those with more experience than I. It seems sound to me. the german guys I know don't change the substrate much or all, once a year they remove some but not all of it. It the lowest maintenance once established.

I planned on using a "drainage layer" but had never heard of using aquarium filter particles or watering straight into either. Like you said it all makes a lot of sense though. You've got me very intrigued, I'm gonna spend my weekend finding that book.

[mr.spooky]

i thought that you wer doing a naturalistic terrarium for your ball python.your goal is for it to be fully sustainable, or as much as is realistically possible.
i was thinking that youd have a termite mound or something.
spooky

[Danman88]

i thought that you wer doing a naturalistic terrarium for your ball python.your goal is for it to be fully sustainable, or as much as is realistically possible.
i was thinking that youd have a termite mound or something.
spooky

Lol. The keyword is REALISTICALLY possible.