Pre-snake jitters, running the check-list

[Wiggy]

Hi, I'm new here, but not entirely new to snake keeping. I kept snakes when I was about 9 years old, although I made some mistakes (I was young and unsupervised without access to the internet for assistance, what do you expect). Fortunately there was no real disasters, and I'm still rather fond of snakes, and beginning to miss having them in my life after taking an extended break.

I have a glass tank that's 36x18x22. I know it's a little taller than necessary, but it's what I have and the footprint is generous. I'm hoping it's really not that big of a deal...

I do have one question that I would like answered, and I have not seen this in any care sheets. I'm aware that among bearded dragon owners, slate or hard floor tiles are often used for the bottom of the enclosure. They're durable, dead easy to clean and sterilize, and reasonably nice to look at. Is there any reason why care sheets aren't listing these as suitable 'substrate' (bottoms) for ball pythons? I would think it would be the perfect choice.

Heating seems fairly straight-forward as long as you have a thermostat to control it. UTH on 1/3-1/2 of the tank (probably go with 1/2 since this tank has a generous footprint to cover), and a CHE. One question I do have... How do I ensure the proper temperature gradient? I mean it's easy enough to heat the warm end to the proper temperature because the heating equipment is right there, but how do I ensure that the cool end isn't too cold? Might I need a second lower-watt CHE and thermostat for the cool end to make sure it's still maintained warm enough?

Also, humidity... It seems to me that the only way to actually ensure proper humidity is through the room's environment. Tricks like putting the water dish on the hot end can kinda help... But, correct me if I'm wrong, this is more of a makeshift "better than nothing" solution that only makes a limited difference.

Misting is an option, but again, seems like a fairly inconsistent solution to what will be a persistent problem. I seem to remember reading one caresheet which mentioned a "humid hide-box" in which a humid environment could be created using some sort of water-retaining substrate inside a plastic container with a lid on it, and a hole for the snake to get in. Though correct me if I'm wrong, pythons do not sense humidity like they sense heat, so a python could not know to seek out this box to expose itself to higher humidity levels like it would know where to go to bask.

So really, it seems that humidity would be the greatest challenge. Or are ball pythons fairly forgiving to fluctuations in humidity between adequate and inadequate?

Other than this, it's pretty much just making sure the snake has snug hiding spots identical on both sides so it doesn't disregard heat in favour of a better hide-spot. Regular maintenance and keeping the water dish clean and full of water. Proper thawing of food. Make sure there's no tape in the tank. Make sure there's no sharp edges or hot objects (heat rocks, CHE's too close to the lid, etc) that the snake can come into contact with, and basically just common sense keeping in mind that pythons have a fair bit of strength for their size to move objects, and are great at escaping from any loose or weak points in the enclosure, etc.

So... Sound like I've got everything understood? Anything to add? Comments? Suggestions? Part of me feels like this is too simple and I must be overlooking something. At the same time I get the idea that simple is what works best for these snakes.

I'm not looking for a challenge, I just want a cold-blooded companion that can be with me for many many years with good health and little trouble or worries. So I'm happy with simple, as long as it isn't missing anything.

[decensored]

Hey there,

First off I want to say that I am very impressed by how prepared you are and how dedicated you are to making sure you have everything in check BEFORE you bring the snake home. A lot of people jump into reptiles without much consideration and make a lot of mistakes (myself included), and this isn't fair to the animal. So thank you for taking the time to learn as much as you can before bringing home your BP!

Your tank sound like its a great size. for a hatchling this size will be too big. You can make it work my filling it with decor and objects to close in the space a little. Driftwood, plants and other decorations can make a big tank like that suitable for a small BP. As it starts to grow however you will need to start removing objects to ensure it has enough room.

The reason people don't like tall tanks is because it is difficult to regulate humidity with all the open space. With that said you should set up your tank now and keep an eye on the humidity reading to ensure that you are providing the proper conditions. He're are some tips to help keep up your humidity (some of which you have already said).
-Water dish on warm side of the tank
-Mist regularly
-Wet towel over 75% of the lid to the enclosure (this is all I have to do)
They also sell humidity hides and fog machines to help but most of the time the towel trick is enough to keep humidity high. Humidity will always be an issue, but things like keeping the water dish on the warm end can be an easy and permanent solution.

The only reason I can think of for why tile works for lizards and not for ball pythons is their method of movement. Lizards have legs and can move easy over those types of surfaces where ball pythons don't. Try going into your bath room and placing your hand flat against the tiles with some pressure and try sliding your hand, you'll see what I mean. In addition most people recommend UTHs (Under Tank Heaters) as a source of heat as lamps will suck up all of the humidity in the enclosure. Tiles will allow for little/ no heat transfer when using a UTH. Also, BP's need higher humidity than Bearded Dragons and without a substrate to absorb some of the humidity as it sits than you can possibly be looking at a wet environment which can lead to scale rot. There are a few more reasons that I can think of but you get the point LOL.

In my experience BP's spend most of their time in their warm hide and if you were to get a humidity hide I would recommend you put it on the warm side. Its important not to go to crazy on the humidity though because humidity reading 80%+ can result in URIs, scale rot and other nasty stuff

A lot of people do have 2 UTH's set on thermostats to regulate the difference in temperature on either side of the tank. I don't do this. I don't find that there is a huge issue with temps for me. I keep my home heated to around 65 degrees and the temps on the cool side always sit between 75 - 80 degrees on their own. Once you set up your tank you'll have a better idea and may have to look at other options.

Some equipment is very important. Here are some things I imagine you already know about/ have but just in case I'll throw some suggestions out there.
- 3 DIGITAL thermometers (1 for warm side, 1 for cold side, 1 for ambient temps)
I personally have 1 thermometer because I use a temp gun.
- 1 DIGITAL Hygrometer to test humidty
- Thermostat (rheostats are useless and nothing more than a dimmer switch).
- UTH

I stress digital equipment because I find that they are much more accurate than the other ones.

I hope I gave you some information you can use, if I left anything out let me know and I'll do my best to answer for you.

Cheers, and good luck with your Ball Python!

[Ezekiel285]

Hey there,

First off I want to say that I am very impressed by how prepared you are and how dedicated you are to making sure you have everything in check BEFORE you bring the snake home. A lot of people jump into reptiles without much consideration and make a lot of mistakes (myself included), and this isn't fair to the animal. So thank you for taking the time to learn as much as you can before bringing home your BP!

Your tank sound like its a great size. The reason people don't like tall tanks is because it is difficult to regulate humidity with all the open space. With that said you should set up your tank now and keep an eye on the humidity reading to ensure that you are providing the proper conditions. He're are some tips to help keep up your humidity (some of which you have already said).
-Water dish on warm side of the tank
-Mist regularly
-Wet towel over 75% of the lid to the enclosure (this is all I have to do)
They also sell humidity hides and fog machines to help but most of the time the towel trick is enough to keep humidity high. Humidity will always be an issue, but things like keeping the water dish on the warm end can be an easy and permanent solution.

The only reason I can think of for why tile works for lizards and not for ball pythons is their method of movement. Lizards have legs and can move easy over those types of surfaces where ball pythons don't. Try going into your bath room and placing your hand flat against the tiles with some pressure and try sliding your hand, you'll see what I mean. In addition most people recommend UTHs (Under Tank Heaters) as a source of heat as lamps will suck up all of the humidity in the enclosure. Tiles will allow for little/ no heat transfer when using a UTH. Also, BP's need higher humidity than Bearded Dragons and without a substrate to absorb some of the humidity as it sits than you can possibly be looking at a wet environment which can lead to scale rot. There are a few more reasons that I can think of but you get the point LOL.

In my experience BP's spend most of their time in their warm hide and if you were to get a humidity hide I would recommend you put it on the warm side. Its important not to go to crazy on the humidity though because humidity reading 80%+ can result in URIs, scale rot and other nasty stuff

A lot of people do have 2 UTH's set on thermostats to regulate the difference in temperature on either side of the tank. I don't do this. I don't find that there is a huge issue with temps for me. I keep my home heated to around 65 degrees and the temps on the cool side always sit between 75 - 80 degrees on their own. Once you set up your tank you'll have a better idea and may have to look at other options.

Some equipment is very important. Here are some things I imagine you already know about/ have but just in case I'll throw some suggestions out there.
- 3 DIGITAL thermometers (1 for warm side, 1 for cold side, 1 for ambient temps)
I personally have 1 thermometer because I use a temp gun.
- 1 DIGITAL Hygrometer to test humidty
- Thermostat (rheostats are useless and nothing more than a dimmer switch).
- UTH

I stress digital equipment because I find that they are much more accurate than the other ones.

I hope I gave you some information you can use, if I left anything out let me know and I'll do my best to answer for you.

Cheers, and good luck with your Ball Python!

X2

Also if you go the misting route for humidity it may help to buy some plants that stick on the sides because you can mist those and they will hold more water than the side would. Also they look nice

[Charlie And Lucy]

I have a garden sprayer, one of those little ten gallon ones you can get at Walmart, that I use to mist my snakes every day. It works super well.

Does tile get hot? Maybe that's why it's not on the caresheets? hmmm...

You mention escaping. BP's are notorious for doing that. It boggles my mind how they do it, but somehow they do.

You are a breath of fresh air when it comes to new or fairly new snake owners. Kudos to you for doing all of the research before bringing your new friend home!

[Wiggy]

I've been keeping pets in some capacity for pretty well my whole life. I made the stupid mistakes young, and I learned to appreciate the values of proper research and planning. Also experience tells me despite my best efforts I'll still run into a couple things I wont be entirely prepared for, but the most I can eliminate beforehand, the less overwhelming and stressful it'll be.

Great advice btw.

As for tile, etc. I'm not sure about the flooring conducting heat, but I know a warm bottom is important for beardies to digest properly, and I'm pretty sure dark stone can absorb and retain heat fairly well. Though it might take awhile to warm up...

Perhaps you have a point about the legs, but I've seen snakes move over smooth surface before, I'm sure. Anyways, fair enough, I'd trust your experience over my own speculation any day.

Question about the towel over the tank... Wouldn't that be pretty restricting of air circulation? Personally I would think respiratory infection would be a concerning risk with doing this. I'm assuming the end that doesn't have the towel on it would be the warm end if you're using a CHE, so you'd sort of be restricting the cooler air from circulating into the enclosure? Is this a common and well-proven practice? I trust your experience but it does seem to go against some other advice I've come across, so I'm wondering if maybe that's not the best solution for me. Could a cheap air-pump be used to agitate the water in the water bowl to cause more evaporation? Or do pythons prefer standing water? I know many reptiles will sometimes ignore water unless it's moving.

I'm a little surprised that UTH's are relied on so heavily. When I last kept any sort of reptile, I always seem to remember the UTH being fairly... Useless... As far as a main heat source was concerned at least... Like it would warm the substrate, but I don't remember it ever really providing much heat to the air, that was always the job of the bulbs. Maybe the technology has improved? I know I never heard of using thermostats back then either, maybe my own ignorance though. You're all using them though so they must be doing something.

One question with the UTH though... Is a temperature reading from a thermometer really that accurate when you're using a UTH? I would suspect that since the UTH would be warming the substrate the snake would actually have access to more heat than an air-temperature reading would indicate. I appreciate the importance of the reading though... But should I just keep it in the back of my mind that there's probably slightly more warmth than the probe is indicating?

As far as humidity goes... It's currently 4C outside, and 81% humidity. So... Pretty humid climate. And it's not like baseboard heating is the biggest humidity killer... So maybe humidity in my place wont be much of a worry... Just wondering, when you say "plants that stick on the sides"... You mean fake plants, not epiphytes, right?

I'll have to get a proper hydrometer. But yes, good advice on running the tank a bit just to monitor conditions.

The advice engrained in my mind for new snakes not accustomed to handling is that you basically ignore the fact that they aren't used to you. Let them tag you if they want to, let them musk, just don't reach for the head or neck, and once they realize you've got them and they're supported/not going to fall, they should calm down enough that you can handling them for a short time, and longer times, until it becomes a routine that they're comfortable and familiar with. Is this correct? Or have I been following the wrong advice?

Final question... This seems to be left out of most care sheets... But would it be worth my while to take a stool sample from a new snake to a vet to get it tested for parasites? Any other tests I should have done? It's not like I have other snakes around that I need to worry about sharing parasites, and I'm sure a good visual inspection and feeding demonstration would reveal anything I should be weary of. But for the sake of the snake's health (and my own health?)...

Been a huge help, thanks!

[zombie666]

The UTH doesn't do anything for ambient temps but it does provide belly heat which is used for digestion. I would recommend picking up an infrared temp gun, it can accurately measure surface temps of the substrate. A digital probe is good for the ambient temps. I'm also new to the BP world and have been researching care info about them. I had the same thoughts about the slate tile as you it works very well for Leopard Geckos and distributes heat well with the UTH. Maybe it isn't widely used because it doesn't hold humidity though.

[decensored]

Hey, sorry for the late response! I actually responded using tapatalk and everything got deleted so I figured I would wait until I had access to a computer. LOL If you have any more questions feel free to ask! Cheers.

I've been keeping pets in some capacity for pretty well my whole life. I made the stupid mistakes young, and I learned to appreciate the values of proper research and planning. Also experience tells me despite my best efforts I'll still run into a couple things I wont be entirely prepared for, but the most I can eliminate beforehand, the less overwhelming and stressful it'll be.

Great advice btw.

As for tile, etc. I'm not sure about the flooring conducting heat, but I know a warm bottom is important for beardies to digest properly, and I'm pretty sure dark stone can absorb and retain heat fairly well. Though it might take awhile to warm up...

Perhaps you have a point about the legs, but I've seen snakes move over smooth surface before, I'm sure. Anyways, fair enough, I'd trust your experience over my own speculation any day.

Question about the towel over the tank... Wouldn't that be pretty restricting of air circulation? Personally I would think respiratory infection would be a concerning risk with doing this. I'm assuming the end that doesn't have the towel on it would be the warm end if you're using a CHE, so you'd sort of be restricting the cooler air from circulating into the enclosure? Is this a common and well-proven practice? I trust your experience but it does seem to go against some other advice I've come across, so I'm wondering if maybe that's not the best solution for me. Could a cheap air-pump be used to agitate the water in the water bowl to cause more evaporation? Or do pythons prefer standing water? I know many reptiles will sometimes ignore water unless it's moving.
A lot of people swear by the towel trick. I have been doing it for well over a year and I have never had any problems with URIs. I would recommend you keep it over the warm side. It will also help to keep the ambient temps up as the heat that would other wise escape has an opportunity to get trapped in. There will also be a bit of convectional air movement from the cool side and the opening will allow for decent air flow. Your BP will have more than enough oxygen (they don't need that much but there is more than enough with the towel trick)



I'm a little surprised that UTH's are relied on so heavily. When I last kept any sort of reptile, I always seem to remember the UTH being fairly... Useless... As far as a main heat source was concerned at least... Like it would warm the substrate, but I don't remember it ever really providing much heat to the air, that was always the job of the bulbs. Maybe the technology has improved? I know I never heard of using thermostats back then either, maybe my own ignorance though. You're all using them though so they must be doing something.

The reason people use UTHs so much is because unlike bearded dragons and other pet reptiles, BPs need both a specific temperature and a high humidity level. Lights tend to dry out the air and drastically reduce the humidity levels. In addition it's difficult to regulate the heat being emitted from a light bulb. UTH's are easy to install, easy to hook up to a thermostat and they don't need to be cycled like lighting does. People rely heavily on thermostats for the sole reason that they are using a UTH. A UTH has a fairly large temperature range with no way to regulate its heat on its own. If simple plugged in and put on the bottom of an enclosure it will reach temperatures enough to burn your Python.



One question with the UTH though... Is a temperature reading from a thermometer really that accurate when you're using a UTH? I would suspect that since the UTH would be warming the substrate the snake would actually have access to more heat than an air-temperature reading would indicate. I appreciate the importance of the reading though... But should I just keep it in the back of my mind that there's probably slightly more warmth than the probe is indicating?

The thermostat comes with its own probe and it should be attached between the UTH and the tank. The probe for the thermometer should go in the tank UNDER the substrate. One thing you will notice is that your BP will burrow down to the glass. I set my thermostat to about 92 degrees and I usually get a reading of 90ish on the glass. Glass transfers heat really well so you won't really have to worry about it. The whole reason behind having a thermometer is just a precaution in case the thermostat malfunctions.



As far as humidity goes... It's currently 4C outside, and 81% humidity. So... Pretty humid climate. And it's not like baseboard heating is the biggest humidity killer... So maybe humidity in my place wont be much of a worry... Just wondering, when you say "plants that stick on the sides"... You mean fake plants, not epiphytes, right?

If your room humidity is 80% you wont have a problem at all. If anything you may have your humidity too high. You can try using Aspen as a substrate as it tends to suck up humidity more than Cyprus or Cocohusk. There's a lot of fine tunning your going to have to do in order to make sure the conditions are right. These forums are great if you have any questions people are generally really quick to answer and if you ever want to you are more than welcome to PM me and I will get back to you as soon as I can. And yes, you can use plastic plants (they are the best in my opinion).



I'll have to get a proper hydrometer. But yes, good advice on running the tank a bit just to monitor conditions.

The advice engrained in my mind for new snakes not accustomed to handling is that you basically ignore the fact that they aren't used to you. Let them tag you if they want to, let them musk, just don't reach for the head or neck, and once they realize you've got them and they're supported/not going to fall, they should calm down enough that you can handling them for a short time, and longer times, until it becomes a routine that they're comfortable and familiar with. Is this correct? Or have I been following the wrong advice?

Most people recommend that you don't handle your BP for about a week after you bring him home. He's going to take a while to get used to his new enclosure and handling BPs can be stressful for them at first. Let him get used to his enclosure and than you can take him out for about 5 minutes every few days to get him used to being handled. After that they can pretty much be handled daily (with the exception of a day or two after feeding and right before/ right after a shed. BP's are very timid snakes and rarely bite so you shouldn't have an issue that way.



Final question... This seems to be left out of most care sheets... But would it be worth my while to take a stool sample from a new snake to a vet to get it tested for parasites? Any other tests I should have done? It's not like I have other snakes around that I need to worry about sharing parasites, and I'm sure a good visual inspection and feeding demonstration would reveal anything I should be weary of. But for the sake of the snake's health (and my own health?)...

Its a great idea to get your BP checked out by a vet. A stool sample is great. Even if he's your only pet its good to know if he has something so that you can treat it and save him from discomfort in the future or even possibly death. Its a good idea for any new snake to go through that initially just to make sure.



Been a huge help, thanks!

[mschmied]

In my experience with my collection, ball pythons tend to be a fairly hearty animal that can withstand some fluctuations. You should always strive for optimum conditions but if there are some minor fluctuations here or there they will be just fine. As long as your humidity and temps aren't wildly off I highly doubt you will have issue's with RI's. Remember, a lot of us keep our animals in tubs in our rack systems and the majority of these have restricted air flow to retain heat and humidity. I have yet to have any issues.

[Vypyrz]

You can use the slate tile as long as you can keep the correct temps and humidity levels and keep it clean and disinfected when soiled...