Mystic Potion / Hidden Gene Woma question

[Mike.P]

I have a couple of ideas I'm throwing around, but I'm a little confused. To make a mystic potion, one would cross a mystic to a mojave right? Or does it have to be a hidden gene woma mojave? Also the whole hidden gene thing... What exactly does it mean? Is it just another recessive gene, or is it something that pops out when crossed with certain other morphs? For example, cross something with the hidden gene to my lesser, and I can make a platty daddy? lol

Would appreciate any insight.

[Maddumpling]

i dont know about hidden genes but mystic potions are made from mojaves to mystics.

[RandyRemington]

Yes, mystic potion = mojave mystic

On the other question I think a lot of confusion comes from similarly named morphs. Maybe at one time NERD thought they were related but as best I can tell the following are two totally different things:

hidden gene: RDR's lesser complex mutation (a different mutation of the same gene as lesser, mojave, vin russo, mocha, special, and mystic/phantom) that combines with lesser to make platy daddy. In addition to having several different names (hidden, platy sib, dilute) this mutation is confusing because they apparently look normal, even when homozygous, and only show up when combined with other mutations in this allele group.

hidden gene woma: I've not been following this as close but my understanding is this is the original woma that produced the homozygous lethal pearl and what ended up getting sold as woma was a similar looking later import line. If I'm understanding right hidden gene woma is a single mutation and not a combination and apparently has nothing to do with RDR's hidden gene.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Randy, AFAIK that's correct, though honestly I'd never even heard RDR's "het platties" referred to as "hidden genes." I think at this point most people seem to be calling them "het platties," which I think is a bit less confusing ...

To the OP, if you cross a "het platty" to your lesser, you can get a platinum. My understanding is that these look just like normal ball pythons, with no markers or anything, so you pretty much just have to just buy one that came out of a platty daddy breeding. OR, you just breed your lesser to a whole bunch of normals and PRAY ... I have heard more than one story of breeders popping out unexpected platty clutches because their "normal" female was het platty!

... Though the really confusing part is that to my knowledge, a homozygous "het platty" still just looks like a normal!

NERD's "hidden gene woma" (which I really wish could get re-named) and your average "woma" are two completely different morphs that have not one single thing to do with one another. The "hidden gene woma" is a single-gene mutation -- nothing hidden about it. It was imported at the same time as the "regular ol' woma," both by NERD, and Kevin thought they might be the same thing at first, because they do look similar. Then it was discovered that the "hidden-gene" woma does crazy things when mixed with lesser, plus creates the neat looking, but lethal, pearl in homozygous form. The regular-style woma does not do these things -- I've seen some fairly nice woma-lessers and some "blah" woma-lessers, but none look anything like the soul-sucker (HG woma/lesser).

I don't really like the term "hidden gene" because I think it's confusing, but in the case of the het platties it almost makes sense -- they don't look like anything until bred to a lesser, mojave, etc.. In the case of the "hidden gene woma," it means nothing and is just a name. There is no hidden gene involved, just a different gene from the woma that's readily available.

The only other thing that I know of that I've heard referred to as having a "hidden gene" is the Citrus/whiteout pastel stuff, where the more extreme appearance seems to pop up randomly ... I am not at all knowledgeable on that so maybe someone else could fill in on what's going on with that line.

[RandyRemington]

What to call things seems to often be a dificult area. I personally don't like terms like het platy and het super stripe. Both platy and superstripe are combos of two different mutant alleles of the same gene so what makes one allele the het and not the other? I guess what I'm saying is why is specter any more het super stripe than yb? And simularly, seems to me lesser is as much a het platy as the platty sib gene or whatever RDR is calling it now (I swear I really did see it called "hidden" at one time).

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Of course you're right, Randy -- a lesser is as much heterozygous for platinum as is the "het platty." (And yes, I'm sure it was referred to as a "hidden gene" what have you for awhile, but I do think lately I've been seeing them called "het platty" ...)

(I thought a specter was the name for a het super stripe, no?)

I guess it's conceding to a convention of snake morph naming which is in itself highly confusing for many folks -- that people usually refer to an animal as "het X" when X is recessive, and the heterozygous form has a wild-type appearance.

I don't love that because you're right, a visual pastel is a heterozygous pastel, a visual mojave is a heterozygous mojave, etc., but it's convention. In chinchillas, a heterozygous recessive is called a "carrier;" in birds, it's apparently "split to X," which I find really bizarre, but hey. (I'm sure bird people find us bizarre, ha!)

But, it is what it is -- if you started calling pastels "hetero pastel" and super pastels "homo pastels," people would get confused, because the terms are already established. While maybe it isn't the greatest, at least "het platty" gets the point across in the commonly accepted vernacular

[BrooklynBoas]

Just to follow along the OP I was reading along and came across a post regarding mystic potions.They are now being labeled as a completed project that does not get any better and pretty much completed.Bottomline the post lead to the suggestion of other combos with mystic potion. I began to wonder about this statement below:

"speical wouldnt work. u cant have 3 allelic genes on one lokus."

Is this so does this imply that MYSTIC MOJAVE POTION CAN NOT WORK BECAUSE OF MYSTIC & MOJAVE ?

I HAVE SOME PLANS ON A MYSTIC POTION COMBO ACTUALLY THREE COMBOS I KNOW PEOPLE ARE OVER LOOKING. I WANNA PUT THEM OUT THERE BUT IM NERVOUS.

[BrooklynBoas]

furthermore check this out mystic potion to normal

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by


How the HECK is this does this imply that mystic is nothing more than a HALF A** MOJAVE ? MYSTICPOTION = BEL however i still ponder what a mystic x russo or lesser would look like u WONT LET THAT GO LOL.

[OhhWatALoser]

How the HECK is this does this imply that mystic is nothing more than a HALF A** MOJAVE ? MYSTICPOTION = BEL however i still ponder what a mystic x russo or lesser would look like u WONT LET THAT GO LOL.

The Mystic and Mojave allele are both on the same locus, so are Butter, Russo Het Leucistic, Phantom, Lesser Platinum, Mocha, Special, and Daddy Gene. I can't make out the rest of your comment/question to answer anything else.

[Mike.P]

I have a follow up to my question, just to confirm something...

Mystic = Phantom ?

Mystic Potion = Purple Passion ?

Just want to make sure. Kind of a lesser = butter thing going on with these morphs? lol