Questions for the breeders

[Amon Ra Reptiles]

Ok so this was our first year breeding balls and we had a really good year. Nothing special really, three spider x normal clutches and a Mojave x normal clutch but out of 27 eggs we only had one egg go bad and no slugs so we are pretty happy with the success and we want to start by saying thanks to the members here for teaching us most of what we now know about breeding.

We have had a few questions pop up and we have found nothing but good information here so far so we are hoping we can pick the brains of those of you who breed on a little larger scale than just a couple clutches a year. This year we are planning to breed several codom and Dom males to normal females in an effort to produce codom and Dom females to build our own collection as well as for future breeding stock. We will also have a couple het to het pairings and possibly one Dom male to codom female pairing if she hits size in time. Anyway, we are planning to breed 16 normal females and three other females for a maximum of 19 clutches. Now we understand that it's not likely that all 19 females will actually take and produce a clutch but we naturally want to be prepared if they did. So doing quick average math; 19 clutches x 5 eggs = 95 eggs/hatchlings. Again, it's not likely to have 95 good hatchlings but it is possible and we want to be ready. Sorry so long winded here are the questions:

1: How often does everyone here feed hatchlings? Meaning the hatchlings you are planning to sell, not what you are holding back or planning to breed.

2: Do you attempt frozen thawed right off the bat or do you only do that once they are established as solid feeders?

3: How long do you wait to assist feed? I have heard 6-7 weeks but I think it was Brian Gundy that assists everything at the 3 week mark.

4: What suggestions do you all have on moving normals? In coming years we will produce less and less normals as we upgrade our breeders to exclude the normal females and move from single gene males to double gene males and eventually a minimum of two gene animals for both male and female but in the meantime it is inevitable that we will be producing quite a few normals. Now females are not nearly as much of an issue of course but the males are essentially worthless from a breeding standpoint. I know to use local pet stores, craigslist, and other classifieds but I was just wondering if some of you had outlets that we had not thought of. I also know some of the larger breeders cull normals but I'm simply not comfortable with this idea. I'm in this first for the love of the animal and a distant second for the money I can make so I feel like if I'm culling normals then we have lost sight of why we do this in the first place.

Again, sorry so long winded and I thank you guys in advance for any advice you can offer.

[spitzu]

Great questions!

I also know some of the larger breeders cull normals

Seriously? That is really messed up...

[iCandiBallPythons]

Ok so this was our first year breeding balls and we had a really good year. Nothing special really, three spider x normal clutches and a Mojave x normal clutch but out of 27 eggs we only had one egg go bad and no slugs so we are pretty happy with the success and we want to start by saying thanks to the members here for teaching us most of what we now know about breeding.

We have had a few questions pop up and we have found nothing but good information here so far so we are hoping we can pick the brains of those of you who breed on a little larger scale than just a couple clutches a year. This year we are planning to breed several codom and Dom males to normal females in an effort to produce codom and Dom females to build our own collection as well as for future breeding stock. We will also have a couple het to het pairings and possibly one Dom male to codom female pairing if she hits size in time. Anyway, we are planning to breed 16 normal females and three other females for a maximum of 19 clutches. Now we understand that it's not likely that all 19 females will actually take and produce a clutch but we naturally want to be prepared if they did. So doing quick average math; 19 clutches x 5 eggs = 95 eggs/hatchlings. Again, it's not likely to have 95 good hatchlings but it is possible and we want to be ready. Sorry so long winded here are the questions:

1: How often does everyone here feed hatchlings? Meaning the hatchlings you are planning to sell, not what you are holding back or planning to breed. I offer my hatchlings every 3 to 4 days

2: Do you attempt frozen thawed right off the bat or do you only do that once they are established as solid feeders? I do offer F/T first (with a pretty good success rate) unless they refuse upto the 2nd feeding then I offer live until they are more established. After I feel they have established I will offer f/t again.

3: How long do you wait to assist feed? I have heard 6-7 weeks but I think it was Brian Gundy that assists everything at the 3 week mark. I dont go much over a month with a non feeding hatchling.

4: What suggestions do you all have on moving normals? In coming years we will produce less and less normals as we upgrade our breeders to exclude the normal females and move from single gene males to double gene males and eventually a minimum of two gene animals for both male and female but in the meantime it is inevitable that we will be producing quite a few normals. Now females are not nearly as much of an issue of course but the males are essentially worthless from a breeding standpoint. I know to use local pet stores, craigslist, and other classifieds but I was just wondering if some of you had outlets that we had not thought of. I also know some of the larger breeders cull normals but I'm simply not comfortable with this idea. I'm in this first for the love of the animal and a distant second for the money I can make so I feel like if I'm culling normals then we have lost sight of why we do this in the first place. If I have normals, typically I trade them off to a local reptile & aquarium store for extra frozen rodents.

Again, sorry so long winded and I thank you guys in advance for any advice you can offer.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

I start all babies on live. I try rat pinks/fuzzies first unless the baby is a small one. Pinks/fuzzies that are 2-3 weeks old. Mouse hoppers usually work for the ones that refuse.

On occasion I've used ASF to start stubborn babies and they have always switched to mice or rats within a few weeks once they get the hang of feeding.

I use to switch to FT but started switching to PK instead to save time and money since I breed my own.

I assist feed no later than 4-5 weeks when all else fails. It usually only takes 2-3 assist feeds and the baby will then take mouse hoppers or rat pups on it's own.

This year I got lucky and all but 2 started on rats.

I feed babies every 4-5 days. I feed slightly smaller meals and get a faster growth rate. I have a plump 200 gram female that hatched in may.

I wholesale normals to my local reptile store, sell them for local pick up at the price of a normal, or to friends for next to nothing.

[snakesRkewl]

1: How often does everyone here feed hatchlings? Meaning the hatchlings you are planning to sell, not what you are holding back or planning to breed.

I feed all snakes the same whether they get sold or not.
Hatchlings get offered every 3-4 days

2: Do you attempt frozen thawed right off the bat or do you only do that once they are established as solid feeders?

I don't feeding anything f/t

3: How long do you wait to assist feed? I have heard 6-7 weeks but I think it was Brian Gundy that assists everything at the 3 week mark.

4 weeks unless it's deemed necessary before that.

4: What suggestions do you all have on moving normals?

Pet stores, CL and friends as most others do.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

1: How often does everyone here feed hatchlings? Meaning the hatchlings you are planning to sell, not what you are holding back or planning to breed.

Every 4 days for the first 3 meals and once a week after that.

2: Do you attempt frozen thawed right off the bat or do you only do that once they are established as solid feeders?

I feed live and switch some hatchling on F/T at customer's request.

3: How long do you wait to assist feed? I have heard 6-7 weeks but I think it was Brian Gundy that assists everything at the 3 week mark.

I consider assisting around week 6 depends on a lot of things (hatching weight, health, overall look, and whether or not everything has been tried)

4: What suggestions do you all have on moving normals?

I wholesale normals to a local pet store.

[West Coast Jungle]

Ok so this was our first year breeding balls and we had a really good year. Nothing special really, three spider x normal clutches and a Mojave x normal clutch but out of 27 eggs we only had one egg go bad and no slugs so we are pretty happy with the success and we want to start by saying thanks to the members here for teaching us most of what we now know about breeding.

We have had a few questions pop up and we have found nothing but good information here so far so we are hoping we can pick the brains of those of you who breed on a little larger scale than just a couple clutches a year. This year we are planning to breed several codom and Dom males to normal females in an effort to produce codom and Dom females to build our own collection as well as for future breeding stock. We will also have a couple het to het pairings and possibly one Dom male to codom female pairing if she hits size in time. Anyway, we are planning to breed 16 normal females and three other females for a maximum of 19 clutches. Now we understand that it's not likely that all 19 females will actually take and produce a clutch but we naturally want to be prepared if they did. So doing quick average math; 19 clutches x 5 eggs = 95 eggs/hatchlings. Again, it's not likely to have 95 good hatchlings but it is possible and we want to be ready. Sorry so long winded here are the questions:

1: How often does everyone here feed hatchlings? Meaning the hatchlings you are planning to sell, not what you are holding back or planning to breed. I feed live mouse hoppers or rat pinks(depending on sizes) every 5-7 days no matter where they go.

2: Do you attempt frozen thawed right off the bat or do you only do that once they are established as solid feeders?Never feed anything F/T

3: How long do you wait to assist feed? I have heard 6-7 weeks but I think it was Brian Gundy that assists everything at the 3 week mark. I have gone 6-8 weeks, depends on the snake in question.

4: What suggestions do you all have on moving normals? In coming years we will produce less and less normals as we upgrade our breeders to exclude the normal females and move from single gene males to double gene males and eventually a minimum of two gene animals for both male and female but in the meantime it is inevitable that we will be producing quite a few normals. Now females are not nearly as much of an issue of course but the males are essentially worthless from a breeding standpoint. I know to use local pet stores, craigslist, and other classifieds but I was just wondering if some of you had outlets that we had not thought of. I also know some of the larger breeders cull normals but I'm simply not comfortable with this idea. I'm in this first for the love of the animal and a distant second for the money I can make so I feel like if I'm culling normals then we have lost sight of why we do this in the first place.

I wholesale them, sell or trade directly to pet shops or sometimes I include them in group deals. I would only cull a severely deformed animal, I personally have never heard of anyone culling normal ball pythons.

Again, sorry so long winded and I thank you guys in advance for any advice you can offer.

[SlitherinSisters]

Yep you have received some pretty good advice so far.

I feed my hatchlings live rats every 4 days. If someone wanted me to try feeding them f/t I would, but live is so much easier. I have been trying assist feeding at 6 weeks, we'll see how it goes. As far as moving them, pet stores, animal swaps/auctions, craigslist, and friends/family.

[Amon Ra Reptiles]

Great answers thanks for the help guys

[SnakeGirl3]

1. I offer food to all of my animals, breeders and babies, for-sale or holdbacks, once every 7 days.

2. I ypically start my baby balls on live fuzzy rats. On occasion I've had some refuse to start on those, and if so, I offer mice hoppers; once they've eaten at least 2-3 mice hoppers, I offer fuzzy rats again. Most switch over easily from that point. Once the babies have had three live consecutive meals, I then begin to offer frozen/thawed. Those that have already been accepting meals have not refused my f/t offerings to date (providing the f/t is warmed up above room temperature).

3. I wait until the babies are 5-6 weeks old (keeping in mind that the first week or week and a half of age is pre-shed and pre-food-offering) before I begin to assist feed. Buying a scale to weigh your snakes (if you don't already have one) is one of the best investments you can make. Monitor your hatchlings' weight and overall appearance. If the baby's backbone begins to protrude, you see loose hanging skin, or if the baby begins acting lethargic, it is definitely time to attempt assist-feeding. However, it is best to catch this early on. Any noticeable attitude changes in the babies are the first sign that assist-feeding should be attempted.

4. Like most others I have a local pet store that buys normals from me, or I give them away to close friends that I know will take care of them. I have heard of bigger breeders freezing their normals (or else selling them off as food for other snakes that consume snakes), but I completely understand where you're coming from. I personally couldn't do either of those things (yes, I do realize people, myself included, breeds rats merely for feeders, but to me it's a different story: if you breed the clutch entirely as food for other snakes, I could live with it--if you're simply pulling the normals to sell off as food, that bothers me--the baby couldn't control what color it's skin turned out to be or what pattern it would have).

Hope this helps!