Is there really a right way?

[Deepsouth]

I have been reading and asking questions about my BPs. I housed them together and was told that is not a good idea. So I moved them to different containers.

I have read that the hot side should be around 95 or so and the cool side about 80. I have also read that the hot side should be about 85-90. That humidity should be about 50% and some say 60%

That some people house their snakes together with no problems at all. I have had people tell me that UTH are no good and to use heating pads with auto shut off. Not to use real plants, to use real plants, not to use heat bulbs and to use heat bulbs. To house them in tubs instead of tanks and then I see photos of snakes in tanks and not tubs. To have a basking temp of about 95 in order to do that you need a heat lamp for the snake to sun itself.

About ten years ago I had a BP that I had for three years. I kept him in a glass tank with a florescent aquarium light and a water bowl. Nothing else. He ate well, shed with no problem and was handled with no problem. I lived in Texas at the time. I never had a UTH or a heating pad and had no problem with him at all.

So my question I guess is why all the differences in opinions? Snakes are wild animals and living in the wild conditions change daily. One day humidity could be as high as 100% or on the low side. If a snake is cold it will find a way to get warm, if it is to hot it will seek shade. Balls make great starter snakes because they are suppose to be kept easily. From what I am reading that statement seems to be very misleading as there seems to be a different degree of raising them.

I have no desire to breed snakes. I am a photographer and other then when either or both snakes will be out on a shoot or in the studio they will be left alone and do what BPs do naturally and that is hide.

So as a new owner of two pythons and what worked for me before is obviously not what should have been do I take all of what I read put it together and then decide for myself which is the correct way to raise them? All I want is happy and healthy snakes that I will be able to take a have photo sessions with maybe once or twice a week.

I also have a friend that has a ten foot Burmese that he keeps in a large wooden crate that he built. He has a normal heating pad in it and a heat lamp. He has a large water bowl and the snake weighs in the neighborhood of about 50 pounds I would think. He is taken out and does photo shoots at least three times a week, is not aggressive at all. He has raised and bred Ball Pythons and has told me other then keeping the temps right and humidity in the neighborhood of about 55% there is little or no care to caring for ball pythons that is why they make such great snakes for people to start with. One other question I have is stress on snakes. How does one tell if a snake is stressed out? With a dog or a cat it is fairly obvious to tell. What do snakes do that make people think they get stressed out?

Not trying to be combative but just totally confused with so many readings. My female hides in a dark corner behind plants and not in her hide. My male hides in the hide. They occasionally come out crawl around a bit and then go back to their hiding spots. Is that normal?

[stratus_020202]

That's the problem with the Internet. A lot of terrible information. Honestly, I wouldn't trust any source, unless there was proof of their "knowledge." And, even good information varies slightly.

There is general "right way" but you have to do what works for you. For example: I have heard of experienced breeders housing more than one snake together with zero problems. Does that mean I'm going to do it? No. I'm not crazy. I know my snakes could care less if they had a tub companion. I think separate areas are way easier. I can tell all my snakes are healthy and know which one laid which poo.

The care-sheet on this site is what I consider the "right way" for me. I know it is backed by a lot of experienced breeders, and as a common ground is very successful.

And if you are confused, you can always post a question. You can always trust the guys in green and red here to give you a straight answer.

[Skittles1101]

Personally I only come here for an info that I ever need regarding my snakes. People here have been researching, working with, and keeping snakes of all kinds for longer than I've been born. Although not a whole lot of scientific research has been done regarding ball pythons and other snakes...like stratus mentioned there is a general "right" way to keep them.

Belly heat has been proven to be more beneficial to snakes because they stick close to the ground and it helps aide in digestion. Those are the facts. People recommend UTHs with a thermostat because it is safer and more accurate than a heat mat with an on/off or heat lamps. People spend a lot of time and money to keep their snakes healthy, and an on/off heat mat with no temp settings are harder to read, and given some some of malfunction can seriously injure your snake. Is it impossible to keep them with it? No, like you said you've done it for a while "without issue", but in most people
s experience and research, it's not ideal.

Ball pythons are very hardy. They are generally considered a "beginners" snake because of this fact. They can go a year off feed without starving to death. They can tolerate improper husbandry better than most snakes. They are generally docile and relaxed. These are all facts. Just because they are a hardy snake doesn't mean they should be kept in improper husbandry. You mention that they are wild animals, but they aren't. We are keeping them in a very different environment than their natural habitat. The US, Europe, Canada....wherever anyone is, is not in Africa. Africa has a very specific humidity range and heat range. These animals are best kept in controlled environments in captivity to best mimic the heat and humidity of Africa. That's why we provide hides, because they burrow in rodent holes during the day in Africa. That's why we provide belly heat, that's why we provide proper humidity. We do all these things because it has been shown that live live healthier lives in these conditions.

I come to this site because the info in consistent. People will say that snakes can be kept together, and have....but it's not ideal. It can be very stressful for the snake. I know I wouldn't want to be forced to live with someone stealing all the good hiding spots and heat source. They are very secluded creatures, and in people's experience, the cons outweigh the pros in many ways. I know in my eyes, I'd rather spend the money for two correct enclosures for two snakes than spend $500 at the vet when both get sick because the husbandry isn't as correct as I thought and one got sick and gave it to the other. IMO you get what you pay for. I've tried going the cheap and easy way and it didn't work. I've literally spent hundreds of dollars on my snakes and their habitats, returned so many products that I've tested and have found what works best for me. Everyone will swear by different things, and this site seems to be pretty consistent.

To answer your question, yes there is a correct way to keep snakes. You can successfully keep them in mediocre conditions successfully. You can go the cheap and easy way if it works for you. But people on this site will give you info to the best of their ability. Ball pythons may not have been researched scientifically as much as we think they should, but with trial and error and hands on experience, a lot of people on here know things that just don't work, or won't work in the long run.

[Jessica Loesch]

I would say there are a variety of ways that "work" but there will always be ways that work best. That being said, there will always be variation.

We can say that the snakes like a hot side of 90-92 and that ambient temp be around 85 and cool side of 80 because there has been many success with this, higher than 92 can get too hot on a daily basis, and lower than 80 won't hurt too much unless its a lot lower.

Heat lamps may work if you have high humidity, but otherwise its hard to keep humidity above 50. 50-60 is a general range, no right answer here.

BP are nocturnal however which makes having a light something that isn't necessairly natural in their habitat (for heat) during night hours, but if there is a night bulb for heat, it should be fine. They don't really come out during the day in the sun to my understanding in the wild, so light produced from ambient window sunlight works fine for their photo cycle.

About keeping snakes together, stratus made a good point, but I'm not an expert here.

I think the biggest point is to provide the most stable environment to keep them healthy and replicate nature for them as much as possible. Heat lamps may stress them out, but know one knows because snakes don't talk.

[cmz1234]

FYI I live in Texas too, so here's my advice as a fellow Texan.

All you really need to focus is the basic husbandry: 50-60% humidity, 90-95 F on hot side, cool side 80-85 F, hides, and water bowl. Beyond that caging is up to you.

Everyone will have their own opinion for glass aquarium and plastic cages. But I will recommend you find a way to keep the humidity in a wire top cage. Heat lamps reduce the humidity in the cage so I'd go with a UTH with a dimmer, thermostat, or something to control temperature output. Substrate is up to you, but note with BP's they shed and defecate quite often. So IMO stick with an easy clean-up.

Yeah separate cages was a good idea, no you don't have to worry about a pregnant female. Also with separate cages you reduce the risk of disease, mites, etc spreading to the other.

IMO a stressed snake tries to crawl away, maybe ball up, bite you, or not even show any visual signs. I'd just make sure they feel secure in their home. Your right a snake will know what it needs when it needs it. Just provide it with an ambient humidity, a hot side, hides, some water and food regularly.

Oh and to bp.net.

[Justin Hatton]

I can tell u what has worked for me this may not be "the right way", but it has and is working for me and my snake eats everytime it is offered food and sheds good and handled well...I have my 18-20 inch baby bp in a 75 gal aquarium but it is cluttered full of fake plants and 4 hides ( 2 cocnut hides ,1 humid hide, and 1 hide made from 3 rocks) I also have in thetank a big piece of drift wood and a water bowl...I use cyprus mulch because it holds humidity well and I have a 12x11 piece of flexwatt heat tape under the tank for belly heat...I keep my temps at 90/80 and temps between 40%-60%...I mist the tank ith a spray bottle when it gets close to 40% and it is good for a few days...I spray the plastic plants heavily because they will drip and keep humidity in the tank...I feed her every 4-5 days a fuzzy rat...I handle her quite ofte but wait atleast 24 hrs after eating...I feed in seperate container...I change water and sot clean daily and full clean monthly or bimonthly deending how dirty it has gotten...I plan on getting more and will be building a rack for them and put them in tubs, but she is my display snake I guess you could say...lol...hope this helps...u will find what wotks best for u and ur snakes