Live vs. F/T mice?

[LoNeSt4r]

I recently attempted to get my baby ball to eat a f/t mouse. I prepared it by leaving it under a heat lamp for an hour or two, in an open container to hopefully get her excited about the smell of a mouse. After wiggling the mouse around for about 10 minutes, she gave it no more than a passing tongue-wagging. Somehow the frozen mouse broke open along it's stomach, and its guts starting coming out (any ideas about how to prevent this?). But more to the point, what are the best ways to get a baby ball to eat a thawed mouse? After trying unsuccessfully to get her to eat a thawed one, i bought a live one and she had it killed and eaten within 5 minutes, so i know she's not on a hunger strike.

[PghBall]

I feed live myself, but the best way to thaw would probably be to put the mouse in a sealed bag and place it in warm/hot water (not boiling). I've heard others say they have to dance the mouse in front of the snake, while others yet just dangle it in there and the snake takes it readily. Also, maybe leave the F/T mouse in the enclosure with your snake undisturbed and see what happens. I'm sure it takes alot of time and patience to make the switch though.

[LoNeSt4r]

Well the only issue i have with putting food in her enclosure is that the snake begins to associate the opening of the tank with being fed, and is thus more likely to attack at someone opening its cage. I did wiggle it around and try to make it look like an actual mouse, but to no avail.

[dr del]

Hi,

Sounds like you cooked it or degraded it by overheating during thawing.

That is the main reason they split.

I would defrost it at room temp for about 3 hours or so ( or until it no longer feels cold and hard in the belly ) and then heat the head of it with a hair drier just before offering.


dr del

[dr del]

Hi,

Well the only issue i have with putting food in her enclosure is that the snake begins to associate the opening of the tank with being fed, and is thus more likely to attack at someone opening its cage. ......

This really isn't a problem with ball pythons.

Besides you will be opening the tank fairly often once they have settled in to chck on them, change the water, clean the tank etc.

I would put in a piece of slate or similar in the tank if you have a loose substrate ( like aspen, reptibark, coconut coir etc ) and leave any food on there - it might reduce any problems with things sticking to wet mice once they start swallowing.


dr del

[Akren_905]

I had a girl that got used to eating live, nowi have to give her live, one baby takes anything no problem, But Aldara i have to hold the prey by its tail about 2 inches in front of her face and slightly to the right then she hits it. change your angle of the mouse dont poke its nose or your snake might get timid and hide.

[Ch^10]

Well the only issue i have with putting food in her enclosure is that the snake begins to associate the opening of the tank with being fed, and is thus more likely to attack at someone opening its cage. I did wiggle it around and try to make it look like an actual mouse, but to no avail.

I feed some of my snakes in their enclosure and some out of their enclosure (it depends on the snake and how much time I have). My biters are actually part of the group that is fed in a separate enclosure; there is no direct correlation between cage aggression and being fed in or out (in my experience).

I've fed outside of the cage for 15+ years and only recently started feeding in the cage due to some picky babies. But again, I have not seen any hard data that points one way or the other (there is great debate on the subject). If you do not handle your BP regularly and you do not get in to clean and give water, etc., regularly as dr del mentioned, then feeding in the enclosure may be an issue (not likely, but possible).

Hi,

Sounds like you cooked it or degraded it by overheating during thawing.

That is the main reason they split.

I would defrost it at room temp for about 3 hours or so ( or until it no longer feels cold and hard in the belly ) and then heat the head of it with a hair drier just before offering.


dr del

x2

I thaw in hot (not boiling) water for an hour or so (water changed every 30 minutes) and offer. For the picky eaters or recently switched, I heat with a blow dryer. For the shy eaters, I leave them in their enclosure or feed box with it (on newspaper) for an hour to overnight.

If you are just trying to switch, make sure it is thawed properly, heat it with a blow dryer and then try the following:

1) DO NOT put it in your snakes face; this can scare your BP into a feeding strike.

2) Grab the prey item about 1/3 up from the rear and move it slowly around the snake, with 3" being the closest you get. Move towards the snake slowly and back away relatively quick (i.e., mimic live prey trapped in an enclosure).

3) If your snake hasn't grabbed by now, gently "tap" the last 1/3 of your snake with the head of the prey item--by tap I mean a light collision, again mimicking live prey trapped with it. Then repeat step 2. This can get some snakes riled up enough to strike.

4) If your snake hasn't taken by now, leave it with it overnight. Leave the snake alone and don't check on it until the morning.

5) If none of these steps work and you have a gross prey item cuddling with your snake in the morning, wait a week and try again. After the second attempt, I typically offer a smaller than normal live item to spark their appetite. I will then try F/T again after 3-4 days.

6) Repeat. Time and patience. I have yet to (edit) fail at switching over a single one of my snakes, including snakes eating live for 5+ years and stubborn babies.

Good luck! (wow, longest post I've ever written...)

[LoNeSt4r]

The funny thing is that she'll stare at it, and then poke it with her nose, freak out, and curl into a ball for a minute or two. I had it hanging above her for a good 10 minutes before the mouse broke open. At that point i said screw it and got a live one. I'll keep trying with the frozen ones, but if i ever need anyone to watch her for a couple weeks or so, i hope i'll have her used to thawed ones by then. Most people don't enjoy watching snakes feed. I find it fascinating, personally.

[LoNeSt4r]

Yeah i know it takes time and patience, i was just wondering if there were any other suggestions on how to warm them up. I will definitely try this stuff out when it's her feeding time next.

[RetiredJedi]

I usually take the f/t out of the freezer in the morning before work and put in fridge. When I get home, I take it out of the fridge and put it on the counter for about 3 hours (or until feed time...I get home at around 5pm and he eats around 8:30/9). Then, I put hot (not boiling) water in an old travel type coffee mug and put the f/t in there for about 15 minutes. Then I heat it up with a hair dryer for a quick minute (low heat) and he takes it almost immediately. I just recently started the hair dryer thing because before he would actually just hit the f/t and drop it and let it sit under the night light, so I would leave it in the enclosure all night. Sure enough when I check in the morning it's gone. I don't think my snake liked it unless it was warm enough because when I added the quick heat with the hair dryer, he's been hitting it and wrapping it right up. I have also been opening the top of the little f/t baggy and put it in a bigger baggy with the top open, when I put it in the hot water ensuring that no water gets inside the baggy. It lets some of the condensation out through the top so that the f/t isn't wet and slimy.