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Fact or Fiction?
I have two questions that I have seen highly debated around the web, but rather indirectly, so I'd like to put them side-by-side and hear what the lot of you think, and of your experiences. I personally own a hatchling (1 months old) Colombian Red Tail, so it would be great if the answers could be aimed toward them, more or less.
1) Is it true that if one doesn't feed their snake outside of their cage (i.e in a tub with holes), they will get cage aggressive? I was thinking about it, and if this snake ends up being 6-7 feet full grown, then what is it going to be like trying to move him in and out of his cage before and directly after feeding? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind, either way. I'm just wondering.
2) Is it true that mice hold much less nutritional value than rats and will potentially stunt the Red Tail's growth? I've only seen this confirmed on one site about Red Tails, but would like to hear an answer from more than just one source. I have 3 pet rats, and do not want my snake to confuse their smell for food, but what choice do I have but to feed him rats if mice will not sustain him?
On a side note, I just fed my little guy, Oliver, for the first time. He's such a sweet baby; not aggressive at all. I think that this was only his 2nd or 3rd feeding, and I ended up leaving him in his tub to eat the pinkie mouse unattended, then let him crawl out of the tub and back in to his cage after letting him sit for a bit. I hope next week he'll snap for the mouse (or, depending on answers, rat.)
I REALLY prefer not to feed him rats, just because of the softy I am for my own little guys, but if the circle of life aims me in that direction, I reckon I haven't a choice.
IF it is necessary to feed him rats for him to grow properly, should I take any special care, having him and my rats in the same room? Should I move them, or could he get used to the smell without consistently stressing about the possibility of a feeding, or...?
I apologize in advance if I sound ignorant. I am. lol My boyfriend is the reptile nut. I'm the horse person.
Last edited by Oliver; 05-06-2011 at 08:14 PM.
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Re: Fact or Fiction?
1. there is no evidence to suggest that snakes become cage aggressive due to feeding in their living enclosure, and as you mentioned, it would be tough to do so when s/he gets bigger! some benefits for smaller snakes, but its not necessary
2. mice have a lower tissue:bone ratio, so more of the weight is bone when compared to larger mammals (including rats).
Aaaand, hate to break it to you, but mice will not sustain Oliver. He is going to be eating rats...but I don't have any advice for you in terms of what to do with rats when feeding...I would keep the rats in a different room from the snakes, and definitely scrub down before handling oliver after handling rats
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1) Fiction...there is absolutely no reason to move for feeding.
2) No matter what you feed him he will always consider your pets food. Feeding mice will not stunt growth, you will just always have a skinny, unhealthy, hungry animal. There are other options, almost all boas can be converted to FT. You can feed frozen rats or gennia pigs, but he will need larger food items as he grows. I personally believe he will get used to the smell of your rats in the room and will not be aggressive because of the smell...at the same time I also believe that will lessen his feeding response on feeding day. Then again we are talking about a boa. iMO, I would not keep my rats and snake in the same room.
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Re: Fact or Fiction?
1. Cage aggression due to feeding within the animal's enclosure is pure fiction. While there may be other reasonable considerations for feeding outside the enclosure (avoiding substrate ingestion, for instance) that is not one of them. And especially when considering big snakes, moving them to feed is not only unnecessary, it can be dangerous.
If you think about it...you open the cage to refresh the water. You open the cage to clean. You open the cage just to visit. And you open the cage to feed. Why would the snake then suddenly associate opening with ONLY feeding? And if you DID only open the cage for feeding purposes and nothing else, then the snake has a lot more problems on its plate and of course it may be aggressive.
2. While the nutritional composition of rats and mice can be compared...no one has ever done (to the best of my knowledge) a comprehensive study on exactly what a particular snake species NEEDS in regards to specific nutrition. You can't say rats are better than mice because they have more calcium per weight...because maybe the snake doesn't need that extra calcium. We just don't know. Ball pythons, for instance, seem to thrive equally well on either mice or rats as a lifetime staple.
Your RTB, however, will very quickly outgrow mice. While it is a baby, they are fine...but as it gets bigger, even the biggest mice will simply be too small for it to consume. It may even cease to recognize them as a viable food source when its head is so big it could not easily draw the tiny rodent down into its throat...much less constrict such a tiny thing to kill it. And as it grows, you'll find yourself having to feed off a handful of mice at a time, when a single rat would get the job done just as well and much more simply.
If you're heart-set on never feeding rats to a snake, then you may need to rethink your choice of species.
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The Following User Says Thank You to JLC For This Useful Post:
cecilbturtle (05-06-2011)
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1) in my experience ive never had any snake become more aggressive because i fed him in his enclosure. ive tried both but at one time i cared for well over 200 animals. kind of hard to pull each one out every time i had to feed them.
2) ive never heard of anyone actually testing the nutritional value of rats or mice. even if that were done there would have to be species specific testing to determine the nutritional requirements for that species of snake. boas eat birds and mammals and lizards in the wild. some snakes will only eat other reptiles. so i would say its not a matter of nutritional value of rats vs mice. its more of a size issue. mice are way to small for an adult boa. ive fed some of mine rabbits and even small pigs.
oh, and by the way, i have a pet rat. Humphrey. i love the little guy but i dont really feel bad for the rats i feed to my snakes. thats one of the things you have to deal with being a snake owner.
"you only regret the risks in life you DON'T take."
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Registered User
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I'm pretty sure that he'll still recognize the rat smell as potential food regardless of if you feed him rabbits. Some of my snakes that haven't made it up to rats yet still perk up if they're carried past my pet rats' cage. I've never had them strike at me but I haven't pressed the issue. After I handle the rats I change clothes and wash my hands (or if they've been crawling all over I take a shower). I think you'll save yourself a lot of headaches if you just move the rats into another room.
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Registered User
Re: Fact or Fiction?
 Originally Posted by babyknees
I'm pretty sure that he'll still recognize the rat smell as potential food regardless of if you feed him rabbits. Some of my snakes that haven't made it up to rats yet still perk up if they're carried past my pet rats' cage. I've never had them strike at me but I haven't pressed the issue. After I handle the rats I change clothes and wash my hands (or if they've been crawling all over I take a shower). I think you'll save yourself a lot of headaches if you just move the rats into another room.
I've had him out and walked right by my rat's cage with no reaction. Would it be safe to just wait it out and see if his reaction to them starts changing, and then if he does start to get anxious when near their cage, I can move them out? I just want to be thorough and make sure that everything I do is absolutely necessary, but also make sure all of the critters stay safe.
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I don't know about keeping rats in the same room at all personally I would not as I'd worry about feeding response issues. (I know some one whom does but it is new for them so the court is still out as they say) I also have never seen any study as to what a red tail needs for nutritional requirements but there are studies as what the value of feeder mammals are,
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf
In case you are interested. The biggest issue would be cost you would need to feed an adult Red tail a lot (like lots) on mice it would be crazy. A friend feeds 2 adult rabbits a feeding. I'd try to switch to F/T and move your furred pets a little farther away (for you not the snake) from food feeding dead you don't get attached to snake food.
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The Following User Says Thank You to kitedemon For This Useful Post:
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I breed 20+ female rats in racks in the snake room and have constant litters going and my snakes eating response is second to none 
I've kept snakes and rats together for 3 years now and keeping rats in the same room is done by many many people with no problems.
Jerry Robertson

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