Getting conflicting info on radiant heat panels

[TrpnBils]

We're looking to upgrade some of our caging and will need to buy 8 RHPs in the near future. I've ordered from Pro-Products before and have been happy with the service and the products, but when I was shopping around a little today I found that I can get the same wattage and size from Reptile Basics for about $160 less on the order.

I sent emails to both companies asking what the differences were, and got some mixed results. The RB guy didn't answer any questions about the quality of their products or why they were different from the ones produced at ProProducts (he did offer me a good deal on the order though, but I have to wonder about what I'm getting). The PP guy emailed me back with this huge list of technical stuff about why theirs were better. In particular his opening sentence made me wonder:

"RBI panels are not UL listed and use a heating element made by Flexel International in Scotland that is not a UL or CE listed product that has a long history of causing fires."

Now it clearly says right on the Reptile Basics website that "The internal element is UL listed and is designed to operate for 40+ years under normal conditions." Am I missing something here or is this just one company badmouthing another? There were other things that were mentioned but most of them were about efficiency. Helix, Avitech, and Bean Farm were also thrown into the mix here because "All of these companies have copied each other and this is the only element they can find as none of them know how to engineer a safe and reliable element themselves".

How true is any of this? Like I said, I've been happy with what I have from Pro Products, but if I'm getting the same thing from RBI and saving $160 then I'm going to go that way. I've read around and seen a lot of good reviews of either, but I'm not real knowledgeable on the specifics that are listed above.

Some other points that were brought up:

OUTGASSING

Pro Products says: "RBI's panels also outgass various chemicals from the plastic, glues and other materials used in their construction, which may be a potential health risk to the animals

Reptile Basic's website says: "By selecting ABS plastic and a unique, exclusive new fiberglass composite material we have essentially removed outgassing from our panel.

THERMAL FUSES

Pro Products says: "[Reptile Basics] also do not understand how to design a proper radiant heater evidenced by them putting the heating element inside of a plastic insulating shell. This along with the type of material used to make their panels (smooth hard surfaces retard the ability of heat transfer from the surface), causes much higher internal temperatures (the real reason RBI needs a "safety fuse" in their panels)"

Reptile Basics website says: "The Reptile Basics RHP now incorporates a thermal fuse, something our competitors do not. Should the panels internal temperature exceed safe levels encountered in normal operation it will automatically shut down."

I have to say that I've emailed Pro Products about various things maybe half a dozen times in the past and this is the first time I've ever gotten a "real" response from them as opposed to a huge generic email with a sentence or two related to my question tacked on at the end. Some of what is being said in the reply seems like just one company badmouthing another (for example: "Our panels cost considerably more to manufacture than these other units (we don't make them in somebody's garage)". On the other hand, the guy from RBI didn't give me any information...just a better deal. Are they hiding something?

Anyone have any input on this?

[2kdime]

Ive had em both and Pro Products panels are a far superior product hands down

[TrpnBils]

How so?

[2kdime]

Design

Quality

The RBI panels DID outgas something terrible, the Pro Products didnt

You wont regret getting the Pro Products panels if you want to go the RHP route

Rich is as good of a guy as you'll ever come across, Bob just makes a better panel

[OhhWatALoser]

wth makes them think abs plastic doesn't outgas? all plastics outgas, plain and simple.

so it over heats and now you have a buy fuse.... great idea, there are plenty of ways to have thermal protection without using a fuse. also I would question why the product would overheat in the first place.

these 2 points, pro products 2 - RBI 0

[TrpnBils]

I've heard some good things about Rich at RBI, but based on the rude email I just got from him I'm going to be doing my business with Pro Products. I wonder if he's like that with all of his prospective customers... and for the record, he never did answer any of my actual questions (basically he blew me off with "well Bob Pound is wrong" and a few other things I can't put in this post without getting a profanity infraction or whatever it's called).

[Vypyrz]

wth makes them think abs plastic doesn't outgas? all plastics outgas, plain and simple.

At least Helix admits their panels outgas and they tell you how to get rid of it before use:

http://www.helixcontrols.com/RadiantHeaterPanels.htm

Boaphile also offers some, but they don't say much about them on their website:

http://www.boaphileplastics.com/radiant.html

[LizardPants]

In my opinion it sounds like both vendors were rude in their correspondence with you.

I would consider any enclosures, hide boxes, radiant heat panels, etc, that are made out of any 'food safe' plastic much safer than ABS or PVC, especially any item where the plastic is exposed to heat.
HDPE (High Density Polyethylene), PP (polypropyline), and PS (polystyrine) are all inexpensive and available in formulations that are certified by the USDA and FDA as food safe, whereas ABS and PVC are not. HDPE is typically used for milk jugs and dairy items, PP, and PS are used for plastic bottles and tubs containing food. The clear plastic bins (rubbermaid, sterilite, iris) are either PP, or PS.

Many items in the reptile industry are made from ABS, and PVC, primarily because they are easy to obtain, easy to work with (vacuum form, bond, mold), and are non-porous. However they should not be considered optimally 'safe' just because of their ubiquity. Look for, request, expect, and demand products to be made out of safer materials.

[AGoldReptiles]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago when I was making the switch to RHP's. I contacted both Helix and Pro-Products by phone to ask questions. (Reptile Basics didnt make RHP's at that time). I decided to go with Helix and if I need more panels in the future, Helix will be them. I did find some very helpful info on Pro-Exotics FAQ section on RHP's, you may want to check it out.

[LarryS]

I have not found any conclusive data to support the pvc off gassing claims at the temps commonly found in our application. It will eventually emit harmful toxins at near burning temperatures, but hopefully that will not be the case. You will find a lot of information out there, but most of it is not specific to the sheet pvc goods that we are using. That said, I would still prefer my heaters to use as few plastic parts as possible.

I would wage that all the heaters are using some kind of "plastic" in their construction. If not visible then probably as an insulating material on the element. My PP panel will register over 160° on warm up, so I hope that textured coating is safe. I asked Bob what it is made of and he said it is confidential.

I love my Lab dearly but am not currently looking for food safe flooring materials, even though he has been known to lick them on occasion