Ball Python Future.....

[MitsuMike]

Ok lately on Fauna or Kingsnake I have been seeing more and more "collections for sale" threads. From the looks of it (from NC that is) the shows are not getting as many people to come and causing vendors not to vend. And from reading about the big shows it looks like a lot of the top breeders in the Nation aren't coming out. I know there are still top guys going out but only about half are, where is the other guys at?
I see and hear all this but yet I go and read Brian's blog (BHB) and he is saying they sold more animals then they have before (my guess is he was the best out there and everyone flocked to him) and to him, it seems as though the hobby is still on the raise.
It's just weird to see such contradictions. It's not like a big breeder is selling the lot they are still producing and producing new stuff, I was just curious on the thoughts of the others on the boards.

[jfreels]

There are posts on here as well as on FC that talk about those people that put collections up for sale. I'd imagine, every fall you'll see a lot of full collections for sale. There isn't much reason for a breeder to give up a collection in the middle of breeding season unless they are in a dire need.

Also, more and more people are getting into the hobby believing that they will be the next BHB. I see at least a post here or on FC every week with an ambitious new breeder that just bought a bunch of morphs and can't wait for the breeding season to make their huge profit

Turns out, it's a lot of work. Some people are not cut out for that. (not that I know from personal experience, but from reading breeder posts and talking to breeders)

I think as far as the ball pythons future, I think it's looking bright. Now I'm a late comer, so I don't know the trends of the past. I only know what I have personally perceived. Morphs are flooding the market. I would imagine that wasn't how it was 5-10 years ago. Please correct me if I'm wrong. At the last Repticon I attended, I don't even think you could buy a normal. I could get some hets and some pastels for cheaper than what a pet store charges for a normal.

We're probably all well aware that Brian has quality. When breeders want good bloodlines, they will go to NERD, BHB, etc. and get quality. I think it's safe to say that a BHB bee is worth a lot more than "ZOMG jfreels first clutch and hit the odds" bee.

The "hobby" breeders will snatch up morphs when they become affordable and breed them out and give more supply which will drive the price down even further.

I'd like to hear from Justin and Robin. They have a vested interest in the species future. I don't think there is anything to worry about. It may be hard to get rid of a bee for $700 right now, but we all know the market sets the price.

[mainbutter]

Ball pythons are currently the epitome of herpetoculture triangle schemes.

As long as number of people wanting to breed BPs grows, there will be room for profit.

Once the number of breeders starts to shrink, profits for just about all morphs will shrink and normalize based more on cost of production than rarity of any particular morph.. however, the rarest animals will always command a decent price to let the hardcore hobbyists inflate their ego a bit having a one-of-a-kind ball python.

[Adam Chandler]

I am personally feel the future of the Ball Python Morph market is bright (If I didn't I prob would not have started breeding and invested my savings in morphs)

I think as far as the ball pythons future, I think it's looking bright. Now I'm a late comer, so I don't know the trends of the past. I only know what I have personally perceived. Morphs are flooding the market. I would imagine that wasn't how it was 5-10 years ago. Please correct me if I'm wrong. At the last Repticon I attended, I don't even think you could buy a normal. I could get some hets and some pastels for cheaper than what a pet store charges for a normal.

Very well put, I am also a late coming breeder. I feel the BP market is evolving. Now I feel the pain of the old school Ball Python breeders(like when I bought my first female Lesser last year and the breeder was told me about how he sold his car to buy his first Lesser back in the day) but I think the falling prices for single co-doms is good for the market and breeders. As jfreels said as the prices drop more people find it affordable enough to start a little morph breeding project or own a morph as a pet. Prices may go down but demand goes up. It’s not like we are going to run out of morphs, even as the prices for double and triple codom's starts to fall new high dollar morphs are created everyday. I watched NERD's new video the other day and was blown away, and that just what the evil morph god is letting us see!

Every time I get the chance to log on BP.net or Kingsnake I can't wait to see what new morph/morph combo has been discovered. I can only imagine what us breeders will be seeing/producing 5 years down the road. In 6-7 years will a Killer bee possibly be the price of a Bumble bee today? Maybe. But maybe by then a Panda Pied will be the same price/availability as a Killer bee is today then we will have another impossible-to-have morph to dream about and talk about how crazy expensive it is.

To wrap this up I have nothing but optimism about the future of the Ball Python market.

[rabernet]

There are posts on here as well as on FC that talk about those people that put collections up for sale. I'd imagine, every fall you'll see a lot of full collections for sale. There isn't much reason for a breeder to give up a collection in the middle of breeding season unless they are in a dire need.

Also, more and more people are getting into the hobby believing that they will be the next BHB. I see at least a post here or on FC every week with an ambitious new breeder that just bought a bunch of morphs and can't wait for the breeding season to make their huge profit

Turns out, it's a lot of work. Some people are not cut out for that. (not that I know from personal experience, but from reading breeder posts and talking to breeders)

I think as far as the ball pythons future, I think it's looking bright. Now I'm a late comer, so I don't know the trends of the past. I only know what I have personally perceived. Morphs are flooding the market. I would imagine that wasn't how it was 5-10 years ago. Please correct me if I'm wrong. At the last Repticon I attended, I don't even think you could buy a normal. I could get some hets and some pastels for cheaper than what a pet store charges for a normal.

We're probably all well aware that Brian has quality. When breeders want good bloodlines, they will go to NERD, BHB, etc. and get quality. I think it's safe to say that a BHB bee is worth a lot more than "ZOMG jfreels first clutch and hit the odds" bee.

The "hobby" breeders will snatch up morphs when they become affordable and breed them out and give more supply which will drive the price down even further.

I'd like to hear from Justin and Robin. They have a vested interest in the species future. I don't think there is anything to worry about. It may be hard to get rid of a bee for $700 right now, but we all know the market sets the price.

Here I am! LOL

Wanted to touch on the first thing I bolded. I've built my collection slower than most, with an eye for what I value and judge to be high quality, and that doesn't necessarily mean that it comes from the big named breeders.

I've never purchased a ball python from Brian, not that I wouldn't consider it, I just haven't seen what I'm looking for, WHEN I'm looking for it from him. Of course, he doesn't have every single animal he has available up on his site, so I don't get the benefit of seeing what he may have that I may be interested in, and I don't go to many shows that he attends.

I believe that a smaller hobbiest breeder, who breeds quality stock can do just as well as the larger breeder. And there's no reason why a smaller breeder who has the same quality animals can't sell their animals for the same price as the larger breeders - it's just that smaller breeders sometimes panic and start slashing prices, rather than holding to their price, and waiting for the right buyer to see their ad. Modest cuts in prices, ok - but not in the first few days, not even in the first week.

As for collection sales, it happens all the time. It takes a passion for the animals and an understanding that sometimes, snakes won't breed, for whatever reason, maybe they need another year before they're ready. Females will re-absorb, it's a LONG process from the day you put your snakes together, to the time that they lay eggs and then another long wait for them to hatch. Then you sometimes have babies that need extra help to get started. I don't like to sell any baby until they have consistently fed at least three meals with me, without assistance. Some people don't have the personality, and I also think that this "instant gratification" mentality these days makes it difficult for some folks to stick with it.

And - it's a lot of HARD work! I spend a full day every weekend completely cleaning my entire collection and the rats. That's a full weekend day that I give up to my animals. Are there days I don't want to do it? Hell yeah! But the animals depend on me - and I have to do it.

My thoughts are a bit rambling, but the main point I want folks to take from this - there are smaller, less well known breeders who are working hard with their collections and producing high quality animals who shouldn't be dismissed when you are shopping for a new animal.

I think if you ask any successful person in this business, they all look for nice animals and love supporting smaller breeders when they can.

[BEasy119]

Here I am! LOL

Wanted to touch on the first thing I bolded. I've built my collection slower than most, with an eye for what I value and judge to be high quality, and that doesn't necessarily mean that it comes from the big named breeders.

I've never purchased a ball python from Brian, not that I wouldn't consider it, I just haven't seen what I'm looking for, WHEN I'm looking for it from him. Of course, he doesn't have every single animal he has available up on his site, so I don't get the benefit of seeing what he may have that I may be interested in, and I don't go to many shows that he attends.

I believe that a smaller hobbiest breeder, who breeds quality stock can do just as well as the larger breeder. And there's no reason why a smaller breeder who has the same quality animals can't sell their animals for the same price as the larger breeders - it's just that smaller breeders sometimes panic and start slashing prices, rather than holding to their price, and waiting for the right buyer to see their ad. Modest cuts in prices, ok - but not in the first few days, not even in the first week.

As for collection sales, it happens all the time. It takes a passion for the animals and an understanding that sometimes, snakes won't breed, for whatever reason, maybe they need another year before they're ready. Females will re-absorb, it's a LONG process from the day you put your snakes together, to the time that they lay eggs and then another long wait for them to hatch. Then you sometimes have babies that need extra help to get started. I don't like to sell any baby until they have consistently fed at least three meals with me, without assistance. Some people don't have the personality, and I also think that this "instant gratification" mentality these days makes it difficult for some folks to stick with it.

And - it's a lot of HARD work! I spend a full day every weekend completely cleaning my entire collection and the rats. That's a full weekend day that I give up to my animals. Are there days I don't want to do it? Hell yeah! But the animals depend on me - and I have to do it.

My thoughts are a bit rambling, but the main point I want folks to take from this - there are smaller, less well known breeders who are working hard with their collections and producing high quality animals who shouldn't be dismissed when you are shopping for a new animal.

I think if you ask any successful person in this business, they all look for nice animals and love supporting smaller breeders when they can.

From the outside looking in this information is very helpful. I just think people approach it the wrong way. One thing i'm learning is you have to take your time building your collection. I also think people don't realize how much time it takes when you have a decent size collection. I look forward to building a good collection and becoming a breeder. One website i look at quite often is

http://www.royalconstrictordesigns.com/

I think from a big breeder aspect, Garrick has prices for everyone. I don't really see packages being sold for a good price. Garrick has bumblee packages, Mojave packages, Het Albino packages, Albino and Het Albino packages and Pastel Packages. I think that would be a good way for someone to start a good project if needed. To make a long story short I love the way the Ball Python industry is going.

[Sammy412]

I have been a small breeder for awhile.....I had to step away for personal reasons for a few years, and am getting back into the groove. I will say, though, that when I did shows, I usually sold almost everything I took. I have always taken very good care of my animals, and it shows. People had no problem buying from me, because they could see what shape the animals were in. I myself like to support small breeders if they have quality animals. Maybe me buying from them helps them acquire the nice morph they have had their eye on. I know people who have supported me have helped me increase the number of quality animals I have to work with. Nothing against big breeders, they get kudos also

[WingedWolfPsion]

The future looks fantastic. I'm in my third year now, and have produced more animals than ever, and they're selling. They're selling faster than they did last year.

I think that the collection sales are all about the economy--if you notice, most of the collections are TINY--sometimes just a few pets, lol. People are moving a lot, sometimes into places where they cannot have pets. People are experiencing economic problems, and need to get some extra money fast. It happens, but these tiny collections aren't really a reflection of the state of the ball python market. When's the last time you saw a collection of 100 plus animals for sale?

I was pleased to notice that the price drop this year was not as extreme as it was last year. (If you think people are howling over prices now, you should have heard them then). I would say things are most definitely getting better.

And I will be the next BHB, darnit. ;D

[iCandiBallPythons]

This industry is like any other business, it takes money ( among other aspects) to make money.

[anatess]

I don't know much about the business side of things but I know there are a lot of people like me who started out 2 years ago with 4 snakes and is now headed towards 8 or more. We're just people who like pet snakes!

As long as the government doesn't restrict me from owning as many snakes as will fit my office shelf, I'm going to continue providing the ball python industry with a customer. They are really awesome snakes that provide my family with the perfect "symbiotic" pet relationship - our inability to provide the snakes with constant attention makes it better for the snakes! I mean - if I just leave my dog in the house for more than 8 hours, he goes psychotic.

The more "common" ball pythons become (more in the lower price point), the more customers for the pet side of things (as opposed to the breeder side) are going to come out of the woodwork and continue to provide for a thriving industry.

The problem is - a lot of breeders get nervous when the piebald pair that they bought for $5000 3 years ago hatch out only 2 pied babies that they can only sell for $1,500 apiece. 3 years and they still haven't gotten their investment money. They don't face their $5,000 investment as a "real" business, calculating return on investments with the future market in mind. This is not a get-rich-quick-scheme. Sometimes it takes a long time for one breeding pair to see a profit. Breeders have to be in this for the long haul if they expect to make this their primary source of income.

We're just here for the love of snakes...