Quick question about inclosures

[XIIIPythons]

So i read on here that its better to keep bp's in smaller inclosures and that if a snake is moving around its inclosure its not comfortable or what not.. who has proven this ? i look at things from both sides. so my 3 bp's stay in there hides during the day and almost everynight if i check on them they are out moving around. i dont think that means they are unhappy.. if anything i think being in a rack system where they cant even stretch out is more likely to make them unhappy . i think rack systems r better for the breeder b/c its less maintenance and space saver. anyways i will stop ranting.. my question is who has proven that bp's rather a small enclosure over having so room to move about.. below is a picture of 1 of my setups. be honest and let me know if you think this is wrong.

[anatess]

I'm not quite sure I understand your post.

Rack systems are not any "smaller" than that tub you got. Most breeders/owners put their adult bp in a CB70-size tub in a rack. Floor dimensions are: 33"X17" which is bigger than a 20L glass tank.

If you're talking about the height of the tub - that doesn't matter much to a bp because it is a ground-dweller. It doesn't habitually climb trees like GTPs do. So, a 5" tall tub is not much different than a 12" tall tub for a bp.

Your set-up is okay. He'll outgrow that tub, so you will need to get a bigger one as it grows.

BPs get stressed when it is "out in the open". Like you said, your bps stay in its hide most of the time - that's just the way they are. So a hatchling in a 20L glass tank does not feel as secure as a hatchling in a shoebox-size tub.

[XIIIPythons]

ya. my post does seem im anti rack system.. but im not..i just want to understand who determines what a snake does and does not like... i just try to look at things from both sides... ive seen some debates where people say why own them if you are just goin to keep them in a plastic tub. but everyone knows you would go broke trying to house 50+ snakes in attractive display for the world to see...

[Valentine Pirate]

ya. my post does seem im anti rack system.. but im not..i just want to understand who determines what a snake does and does not like... i just try to look at things from both sides... ive seen some debates where people say why own them if you are just goin to keep them in a plastic tub. but everyone knows you would go broke trying to house 50+ snakes in attractive display for the world to see...

Why own them? Not because I just want to sit and stare at them through glass. They're pets, and if a plasic tub is a better (more comfortable for the snake) enclosure, then I'll use it. It's easy to keep clean, doesn't take much space, and the cloudy sides make it so the movement from the room isn't as stressful. It isn't really about what a snake "likes" or "dislikes" as much as it is about what stresses the animal out, and what makes it comfortable.

The most important thing is getting the husbandry right (temps, humidity, hides). What you put it in or what you make it work in is really up to an owner. There's nothing wrong with naturalistic setups and people are free to have them. I just personally prefer plastic tubs.

[iCandiBallPythons]

Your setup looks fine to me,IMO bp's are like any other animal theyre not all the same and cant be compared the same. Roaming at night is normal as these animals are nocturnal.The bottom line is an insecure bp typically does not feed or will exhibit irregular feed patterns.The majority of threads entitled "my snake wont eat" that Ive seen will end up revolving back to an overly large enclosure where the snake does not feel secure (among other things like improper temps.) I move my bp's from 16 qt's (with 2 hides) upto 32qt, then 41 qt for large females. Over my experience I have had some go off feed for a few weeks when moved up to the next size tub, I move them back down and they resume eating like nothing happened. I have a couple of males that are 700 gram range that are doing great in 16 qt's because when I move them up they cease eating and seemed stressed on more than a few attempts to move them up. I think really it boils down to the individual personality of each animal that determines whether they are content, therefore I provide what works for each animal. I have also seen bp's that are housed in open aquariums no hides, only substrate and eat like clockwork.

[WingedWolfPsion]

To answer your question:
The more you work with a species of animal and observe it, the better you become at recognizing which behaviors are normal, and which indicate distress, agitation, or some other issue.
There are variations between individuals, but in general:

A ball python that is behaving normally will spend most of its time in hiding during the day, and will become active and roam a bit for periods during the night, except when in shed.

Ball pythons that roam constantly, especially during the day, are not behaving normally. Likewise, a ball python that never emerges from hiding, even during the night, when it is not in shed, is not behaving normally.

Obviously, failure to eat is abnormal as well (except when breeding, but snakes may show signs of agitation then as well, for obvious reasons).

Abnormal behavior is frequently coupled with failure to eat, or inconsistent feeding habits.

From this, we surmise that a ball python that is behaving normally and eating well is content, and its conditions are proper. One that is behaving abnormally and not feeding well has some issues that need to be addressed to make it 'happier'.

[anatess]

ya. my post does seem im anti rack system.. but im not..i just want to understand who determines what a snake does and does not like... i just try to look at things from both sides... ive seen some debates where people say why own them if you are just goin to keep them in a plastic tub. but everyone knows you would go broke trying to house 50+ snakes in attractive display for the world to see...

"Attractive display for the world to see" is for YOU, not the snake. The snake could care less what it is housed in as long as it has what it needs - temperature, humidity, security, and food. They want to be left alone.

They're not like dogs who has "feelings" and gets attached to their owners.

[anatess]

"Attractive display for the world to see" is for YOU, not the snake. The snake could care less what it is housed in as long as it has what it needs - temperature, humidity, security, and food. They want to be left alone.

They're not like dogs who has "feelings" and gets attached to their owners.

P.S. We know this becaue of studies/observations of the nature/behavior of the species in the wild.

[OhhWatALoser]

i know because I have a couple females that stop eating when I put them in 41q and eat when i put them back in the 32q.