Snakes and No-Pest Strips

[TrpnBils]

Hi, I'm currently in the middle of an email discussion with HSUS and the USDA about a "zoo" I visited recently that had some horrible issues with their reptiles (dead animals, hot rocks for snakes including the ~10 ft burmese in a big fish tank, no water, huge swollen areas on some king snakes, no-pest strips in with every one of them, temps of 98 degrees in the tanks, etc).

A vet from the USDA says she's talked to the co-owner of the zoo about the issues but they would like me to come up with some research supporting my claim that the no-pest strips can cause nerve/neuro damage. I have some reference papers on hand and a book or two, but I've seen several threads about it on here and I'd like compile a few more sources here if possible. If you can provide me with a reputable reference, please PM me or post it here. Thanks!

[MarkS]

Why in the heck would you even be speaking to the HSUS? They care NOTHING for the welfare of the animals, they only want examples like yours so they can pass more laws making the owning of animals illegal.

In answer to your question on no-pest stripes however, the answer is 'it depends'. No-pest strips contain a poison, that's what kills the insects, ANY insecticide in too high of a concetration can cause neurological problems and death in higher animals. However, before the invention of Provent a mite or Black Knight, one of the accepted treatments for mite infestations was to use small strips of no-pest strip (about a 1" X 1" size) inside a small perforated plastic container placed inside the snakes cage. You left the small chunk of no-pest strip in the cage for about a week, then removed it for a week, then put it back for a week etc... until your mite problem was gone. In small amounts, this was not harmful to the snake but it did kill the mites. If you placed an entire no-pest strip inside the cage, then yes you would probably kill or cause serious damage to the snake.

[TrpnBils]

Do you have any way to back that up?

I can search forums all day long and pass along dozens of forum user's comments to the USDA about how bad they can be, but unless I can find some actual evidence to back that up then it's pretty much pointless. These are not 1x1 chunks by the way... they are these http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:3,s:0

From what the vet tells me that the co-owner told her, they had a "problem with mites one time and don't want it to happen again" - which sounds like they've had them in there for quite some time.

[MarkS]

Depends on what you mean by proof. There are a few old keeper manuals around that recommend this as a treatment I remember reading this in some old AVS publications, as well as personal experience from many old time snake keepers, but you'll never find any clinical trials or anything like that. That kind of info just doesn't exist. No University or research facility is going to waste their time or grant money doing testing of this sort which benefits such a relatively small group of people.

[TrpnBils]

I'm looking for something similar to what I've got in front of me right now. It's not a research trial, but it's written by a vet (the book "What's wrong with my snake?" by Dr. John Rossi).

He says the preferred duration is for a 1x1" strip to be used for 3 hours every 3 days for 8 weeks (water removed during the time that the strip is actually in the cage). He links over-exposure to paralysis in garter snakes, severe neurological problems in pythons, and lethargy in water snakes.

By the way, here is the type of setup in this zoo I'm referring to. You can't tell in this photo at this resolution, but that water dish is empty.

[MarkS]

That definantly looks like overkill, and if that were a fresh brand new no-pest strip I would expect the snakes days to be numbered, but it's possible that it may be an old one (at least I would hope so) they lose their effectivness in a pretty short amount of time once they've been exposed to air. The no-pest strips (another brand name is Vapona) are plastic strips that are impregnated with the poison, the poison dispurses into the air as a vapor over the entire surface area of the no-pest strips (the reason you use such a small amount inside a cage, there'll be less surface area) but as the strips 'gas out' they become weaker and weaker. I can't remember if it's three months or more or less, but it's not an especially long time until they're pretty much worthless.

You're probably right about the amount of time, I remember reading different accounts in other books and old issues of The Vivarium magazine, although three hours does sound kind of short to me. Of course there are going to be many variables in play, like how big the piece of no-pest strip is, how old it is, what volume of air the cage can hold, how much ventalation the cage has, etc... All of which also makes it hard to control. There really is no reason to be using no-pest strips at all anymore with all the new products that are available today.

Personally, before PAM or Black Knight were available I used Sevin dust for mite problems. It was a lot more work, but I felt you could control it better. But I'm just glad I don't have to use any of that stuff anymore, give me a can of Black Knight and I'm happy.