spider x spider

[Steveoo]

whats known about the lethality of breeding spider to a spider? iv seen people say that you shouldnt because of possible death but no one seems to really know. has anyone attempted to breed them or has everyone shied away from it because they herd it could be bad?

[seeya205]

As there is no super form to date, most find it not worth the risk but I never heard from anyone that has done it!

[Dixie Serpent Den]

Everyone I know doesn't do it cause there is no super to made from that. You would just get spiders and normals and you can get those by breeding a spider to a normal but with another morph atleast you get a double morph out of it. SO, it's not worth it unless for some reason that's all you have.

[Steveoo]

well what about if you have a spider het something. wouldnt it be better to breed two spider het "what ever" to each other?
and this was more about why would it kill the young? if you can breed every other morph to its self why not this one? what make these so different?

[iCandiBallPythons]

Use the search feature, youll find quite a few threads about this

[snakesRkewl]

if you can breed every other morph to its self why not this one? what make these so different?

People have bred Bumblebee to killerbee I believe.
It's like pastels, breeding a pastel to another morph generally pays more dividends than making more pastels, normals and maybe a super.

[CoolioTiffany]

On one thread a few weeks ago someone had stated he has spider x spider eggs in the incubator awaiting to hatch in 3 weeks. I really hope he posts a thread soon enough, I'm wondering what the outcome is.

[Kyle@theHeathertoft]

and this was more about why would it kill the young? If you can breed every other morph to its self why not this one? What make these so different?

Short answer: I don't know.

Long answer: In horses, there is a type of colour pattern gene, a form of Overo, that in the homozygous form is lethal. Why would a simple colour pattern kill the offspring? Because the genes that make that particular patterning also control the development of the lining of the intestines, and in the homozygous form the intestine lining doesn't develop the ability to absorb nutrients, meaning the foal will literally starve and die shortly after being born. Heterozygous Overos are beautiful animals. Homozygous Overos all die.

No other horse pattern gene is known to cause such inevitably fatal consequences. I know many folk who test their horses for the Overo gene (since it isn't always blatantly expressed, also there are other Overo patterns and Sabino patterns that can literally hide it) before breeding so they don't accidentally breed Overo to Overo.

Now let's look at Spiders. All Spiders "wobble" to some degree, from the ones who just tilt their head a little when rotated onto their back to total trainwreck Spiders who look like they're having a seizure 24/7. Since there seems to be no direct connection to a Spider's parent's wobble severity and it is case-by-case, I am 100% convinced based on what little I know that it is some form of dysfunction in the nervous system and directly tied to the Spider patterning. Heterozygously, you get a beautiful snake.

Homozygously, it might mean the nervous system fails completely. When I first considered adding a Spider to my collection (she is still at the breeder's right now) I spent months researching the wobble, and read in a few places that some breeders have bred Spider to Spider and found that an unusual number of eggs just fail. This leads me to consider that there may be something to this notion of it's lethality.

Also bear in mind that in some animals a "lethal" gene isn't actually going to kill them...merle in dogs is sometimes called "lethal white" which is a misnomer...a homozygous merle may be born with a visual or hearing deformity (such as "star-shaped" pupils) or impairment...they may be born deaf...they may be both blind AND deaf...or some are sadly born WITHOUT EYES AT ALL...but unless euthanized, they can live and even thrive if given a chance. Still, many (self included) consider it unethical to breed merle to merle...why risk such heinous birth defects?

Or tl;dr answer: I still don't know.

[OhhWatALoser]

I spent months researching the wobble, and read in a few places that some breeders have bred Spider to Spider and found that an unusual number of eggs just fail.

where did you find this information? I tired to find info like this and didn't find crap.

[Steveoo]

ok that makes some sense. for the most part all of the posts iv seen on any spider to spider has just been people fight weather they think its lethal or not. but Kyle@theHeathertoft makes a point and adds some reasons behind it. thank you very much