Ultramel/Caramel/Caramel Albino Crosses

[CoolioTiffany]

I don't normally see too much of these, I'd love to see more.

I tried finding pics of caramel albino spiders but found nothing

Not sure if they've been produced?

Any crosses with the morphs I listed on title I would much appreciate seeing in pics. I just love the look of the crosses!!

[Oxylepy]

I think people shy away from Caramels what with the kinking issue. But there are quite a few crosses with them:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...-desert-ghost/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/caramel-glow/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...aramel-mojave/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...albino-pastel/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...mel-pinstripe/
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...ramel_glow.asp

Also i would kill for an ultramel panda or even just an ultramel super black pastel/cinny or an ultramel genetic stripe... or just an ultramel... Hoping I can produce enough Lesser Pastels/Lesser Fires to trade for one next year...

[crapwhereaminow]

Wow, I think I have a new goal. That mojave/carmel was amazing!!!

[Oxylepy]

Wow, I think I have a new goal. That mojave/carmel was amazing!!!

Try the Mojave Ultramel ~_~ It's pretty obvious I'm not a supporter of caramels. Some people hate spiders because of the wobble, but I dont like the continuation of the Caramel line because of the kinking (mind that doesnt mean I dislike other people producing them, I just wouldnt work with them)

[The Hedgehog]

http://royalconstrictordesigns.com/i...=carspi10-102f

Caramel Albino Spider. For a lot of money.

[snakesRus]

People seem to think that if you breed caramels you come out with kinked babies. which is untrue.my caramel male has a slight tail kink and has produced for three years in a row with the same girl and every baby has been perfect with no kinks or deformities. from what I and several other people have found is tom definetely out cross and use a slightly drier incubating medium.my male is a bell line and the female het is a nerd line. two totally different but compatible blood lines. i would definetely not raise up the babies and breed back to the parents. but just my two cents

[RoyalVariations]

People seem to think that if you breed caramels you come out with kinked babies. which is untrue.my caramel male has a slight tail kink and has produced for three years in a row with the same girl and every baby has been perfect with no kinks or deformities. from what I and several other people have found is tom definetely out cross and use a slightly drier incubating medium.my male is a bell line and the female het is a nerd line. two totally different but compatible blood lines. i would definetely not raise up the babies and breed back to the parents. but just my two cents

I agree, caramels are beautiful and make great combos. the best combo ultramel or caramel i have seen so far is the "caramel ultramel" combo. but if a breeder is not into highly selective breeding in order to achieve such beautiful caramels then perhaps they should work with what they are comfortable with instead. i respect that. my point is, caramels are worth while to breed and the challenge of selective breeding is rewarding.

[rabernet]

People seem to think that if you breed caramels you come out with kinked babies. which is untrue.my caramel male has a slight tail kink and has produced for three years in a row with the same girl and every baby has been perfect with no kinks or deformities. from what I and several other people have found is tom definetely out cross and use a slightly drier incubating medium.my male is a bell line and the female het is a nerd line. two totally different but compatible blood lines. i would definetely not raise up the babies and breed back to the parents. but just my two cents

Congratulations on your successes with breeding and not producing kinked babies, but you can't say that it's untrue that when you breed caramels that you don't come out with kinked babies. Because people DO produce kinked babies.

I have the opportunity to "adopt" a caramel albino female baby with a small tail kink. The breeder has decided to stop working with them and move to ultramels. They had only one baby without a tail kink.

She'll be coming into my collection as a pet, and I won't be breeding her. I had decided some time ago NOT to work with caramels, because I knew that it would be heart breaking for me to produce a severely kinked baby that would have to be culled.

However, when this opportunity was presented to me to acquire one as a pet, I was very excited to be able to offer it a forever home!

[Bill Buchman]

I agree with Kyle that one must pay attention to the details when working with Caramels. Out-crossing and mixing in the best codom genes for both vitality and appearance are both wise.

I find it curious that the most vehement kudos for the Ultramel come from those who DON'T work with them, NEVER worked with Caramels, or have FAILED working with Caramels(encountered a high kink %). I have heard from what I consider a reliable source that Ultras are inclined to kink. Is that true?? I DON'T WORK WITH THEM -- so my opinion is just speculation based on 2nd or 3rd hand info.

As far as Ultra combos go, the ONLY one that has been made public is the SPECTACULAR Camarillo -- which is half CARAMEL!!! The opinion that Ultras will make prettier combos is mere speculation. I will be mixing the Ultra gene into some stuff in the future -- I like the gene and feel they have great combo potential -- if they are mixed with the right gene for THEM. I am also GUESSING that time and breeding will show Caramels to more than hold their own against Ultramels in the combo department. That is just a GUESS!!!

ADULT morphs for me are the measure of a genes/gene combos beauty. Most every morph looks cool after their first shed. Fewer look as good or better at 800 grams. When you think about it quite a few are down right HIDEOUS when compared to their hatchling version. I'll take the best of the Caramels over the best of the Ultra as adults -- HANDS DOWN. I find their overall ADULT color, hues, and blushing superior to the Ultras more "opaque" color.

Lastly, I would magnify an important Caramel statistic that many/most posting opinions about demise of the Caramel gene ignore -- more than a few breeders working with Caramels are producing FEW(10% or less) to ZERO KINKED Caramels.

[RoyalVariations]

Anytime people make a broad sweeping definitive statement as if something is a fact, its merit should be kept in check by a more informative assessment of the actual results. Everyone’s experience is not the same and in this case it is more blatant perhaps. Pitting one morph against another is perhaps not the best approach. When any breeder has a bad experience breeding any morph perhaps more facts and details of what they did and why might allow us to find answers that explain their outcome and repetitive results. Instead of competing one morph against another morph as one or the other, perhaps one might choose to work with both. I respect anyone’s choice to work with or not work with what ever morph they feel is more appropriate for them. My experience working with Caramels has been different it would appear than some other breeders based on some of the comments posted on various forums. I am more concerned with how effective selective breeding is and how it can be utilized to produce healthy robust and beautiful hatchlings. I go to great lengths to outbreed every morph not just Caramels, but that is my approach and I like it. When I add the Ultramel to my collection, I will outbreed it also.