Live IBD Test?

[Aeries]

Is there anyway to conduct a test for IBD while a snake is alive? I know that it is one of the biggest turnoffs of purchasing boas, and it would be awesome to be able to say 'All the bos in my collection have been tested and are IBD free'

Additionally, do any of you who breed boas have a policy on what you would do if someone contacted you a year or two after purchasing a boa claiming it died, had a necropsy and was found to have IBD?
Obviously there would be variables in there that would be hard to verify like the exposure the snake may have had to other potiential IBD carriers-but that's the same as a snake dying a month after you've sold it-you can't be sure whether it was your problem or if it was because the owner didn't give it appropriate care.

[wolfy-hound]

IBD can be diagnosed with a blood test, or from a liver biopsy. HOWEVER... IBD can NOT be RULED OUT through a clear blood test or even a clear liver biopsy. The vets at UF are very skilled with exotics, which is where I have taken some of my snakes. They explained that the blood or liver might not have any evident inclusion bodies but it could still be present in the brain tissue.. etc.

Personally.. if I gave a health guarentee, it would have a limited duration, such as 10 days or 30 days, etc. If I was given a health guarentee and the snake came up with IBD months later, I would not expect any refund etc, but I would contact the seller to inform them, if I was certain that my snake could not have become infected some other way(i.e. I didn't allow other snakes into the house, didn't take the snake out to other places, etc).

Just my $0.02, hope this helped.

[Vypyrz]

If one of my boas came down with IBD, I would notify the breeder as a courtesy so they could keep an eye on their collection. I wouldn't expect them to replace the snake. It is just one of those risks you have to take when owning an animal. You care and provide for it as best as possible, and if the worst happens, then have it humanely euthanized so that it doesn't suffer. Just my opinion...

[RichsBallPythons]

Yep all you can do is notify who you bought from so they can get to looking out. No refund should be expected unless its within their health guarantee.

[Aeries]

Cool, thanks for the opinions guys. So by the sounds of it, you could run some tests, but they'd be costly and stressful and wouldn't be able to guarantee anything anyways.

[WingedWolfPsion]

My understanding is, you can get a blood test, and it's probably going to come back positive, but that doesn't mean the snake has IBD. It just means they're doing a trial on these blood tests, and they're all coming back positive. lol

Someone with more information, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but when I discussed the possibility with my vet, that's what he found. The blood tests aren't worth the money because a positive test doesn't mean the snake is infected with IBD. It would be really nice if we could get new animals coming into our collections a simple blood test to check for the big bad viruses, but unfortunately, that day is not yet here.

[Skiploder]

My understanding is, you can get a blood test, and it's probably going to come back positive, but that doesn't mean the snake has IBD. It just means they're doing a trial on these blood tests, and they're all coming back positive. lol

Someone with more information, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but when I discussed the possibility with my vet, that's what he found. The blood tests aren't worth the money because a positive test doesn't mean the snake is infected with IBD. It would be really nice if we could get new animals coming into our collections a simple blood test to check for the big bad viruses, but unfortunately, that day is not yet here.

I had two taken and they came back negative for two animals that eventually tested positive.

My understanding is that if the test comes back negative it doesn't mean that your animal is clear.............

[wolfy-hound]

You can get a negative blood report saying they did NOT find inclusion bodies in the blood. That doesn't guarentee that the snake doesn't have IBD. But if they get a positive blood report, then it's likely the snake DOES have IBD.

[CoolioTiffany]

One of our Green Anacondas at the sanctuary where I volunteer at had IBD, or we thought it did. It was not doing well at all, and when I handled it, it would barely use any muscle, and when we got them in they did use their muscles a lot but were still stick. Though, while I was handling the sick Conda it started to turn its head and kind of spin around to make the body look kind of twisted. So, we thought it had IBD. We got these from the Texas seizure not too long ago, and we all made sure we washed our hands VERY well after handling this Conda.

The point of that story was to say that any boa can immediately show signs of IBD even if not too long ago it seemed perfectly fine. So, as the posts said above, you basically cannot guarantee you have an IBD free boa, but it can be possible to have a boa without IBD at all (not even carrying it). All I have to say is no matter what always wash your hands after handling any boa even if it is perfectly healthy. This is why I don't really like owning boas, I have one but I don't like the fact that it is in the house since I have a python collection going.

[Skiploder]

One of our Green Anacondas at the sanctuary where I volunteer at had IBD, or we thought it did. It was not doing well at all, and when I handled it, it would barely use any muscle, and when we got them in they did use their muscles a lot but were still stick. Though, while I was handling the sick Conda it started to turn its head and kind of spin around to make the body look kind of twisted. So, we thought it had IBD. We got these from the Texas seizure not too long ago, and we all made sure we washed our hands VERY well after handling this Conda.

The point of that story was to say that any boa can immediately show signs of IBD even if not too long ago it seemed perfectly fine. So, as the posts said above, you basically cannot guarantee you have an IBD free boa, but it can be possible to have a boa without IBD at all (not even carrying it). All I have to say is no matter what always wash your hands after handling any boa even if it is perfectly healthy. This is why I don't really like owning boas, I have one but I don't like the fact that it is in the house since I have a python collection going.

Here's the problem - this notion people have that animals with IBD always display neurological signs is wrong. Assuming that every snake that stargazes, twists, contorts or displays a neurological symptoms has IBD is incorrect.

Many diseases - viral, bacterial, protozoan, etc. present with neurological symptoms.


The problem with tests on live animals is that they are targeted and therefore can miss IBD inclusion bodies in other organs. The same goes for the blood test - a negative test does not automatically mean your animal is clear.

After my two dwarfs were positively diagnosed, I contacted people whom I sold animals to over the affected period. The pair only had one clutch but I was concerned about other boids and potentially colubrids that were in the same building.

One gentleman who had a woma python insisted, 8 months after I contacted him, that his snake had IBD. His reasoning was that it had fasted for the last 8 weeks (after not missing a meal) had lost a bit of weight (minimal) and appeared to have red splotches on his belly.

My experience with womas has been that when they hit sexual maturity, the males will sometimes go off feed for anywhere from two to three months. This male was reaching sexual maturity and I informed the customer that this was probably the case.

No, no, no he insisted - it had to be IBD. After paying for two live biopsies, blood tests and subjecting that poor snake to a tube feeding, he called and told me that it was useless - the snake was doomed to die (even though all of the tests were negative). He was going to do the right thing and euthanize the snake.

I took the snake back from him, put him in QT and when my other male womas started to feed, I gave him a F/T small rat which he demolished. As to the red marks on his belly - I never saw them but could only conclude that they were the customer's hyper-sensitive reaction to an impending shed.

That snake fed every week for the next 4 months. I called the customer and offered the snake back and I am happy to say the snake resides with him as of this date.

What did we both learn? Well, of you read enough of the on-line blurbs about IBD, almost any symptom can be attributed to it. People both over and under react to it. Some people think every little ailment is an indication of IBD. Others deny it is an issue.

My Vet - right or wrong - told me that it's a disease of exclusion. Only when the acute and subclinical symptoms don't respond to treatment, when the tests for the more common infections are negative, and when all other factors can be excluded, do you start the IBD diagnosis process.

The problem is that by the time you exclude the other ailments, your vet bills are going to be fairly steep and the tests for IBD are expensive and, as has been pointed out, often not conclusive. Therefore people often opt not to go that route - and therefore the true infection rate is still honestly unknown.