Thoughts on Dom female vs co dom female

[PweEzy]

I have been thinking about adding a female pinstripe to my collection, but came across this post tonight...

All you need to worry about having a dom female is the potential of her offspring.
I find that a dom female is.... limited for her potential but her babies can be used in crosses with many other morphs.
I prefer codom females for the purposes of line breeding.
For instance: A pastel female when bred to (example) yellowbelly can make a Pastel YB.
The next year, if you are lucky you can breed her son back to her and possibly create Super pastel YBs.
When having a dom female you should definitely have another morph female to breed the pins offspring to in the upcoming seasons.
A better scenario: YB female. Breed a pastel to her and create the pastel YB. Next years you breed that baby to his mother and possibly create a Pastel Ivory!
See where I'm going with this?
But I can't say that having a dom female is a bad idea.
So good luck with her.
Your best bet is definitely a codom male such as a bumblebee, pastave, superpastel, cinnabee, pastel YB.... and so on.
-Steven

I think that will make me think about that more, cause it seems like a pretty good point... what do you all think? Though pinstripes add pretty cool patterns to alot of morphs, would it be more worth it to have the dom male or female? Just curious about others thought on this

[dreese88]

I would say that Steven has a very good point. I feel with Dominant traits, it's better to buy them in Combos and then usually in males. Would I be disappointed with a lemon blast female? No, but I would prefer it to be a male. I have 3 females, which are mentioned in my sig. All are codom traits & 2 are codom combos, so that kind of shows you my thoughts on the subject there.

[PweEzy]

any other thoughts on the advantage or disadvantage of dom female to dom male?

[Russ Lawson]

If the dominant female is replacing or backing up a normal female, I see no harm in having one. Personally, I think they are particularly nice for having to breed to recessive males for starting combo recessive/dominant projects. Even then, it's probably better to wait until you have a bit more money, and buy the dominant female het whatever recessive mutation you are planning on crossing her with so you can get the combo in the first year.

Really in the end though, it all depends on what projects you are wanting to work on. I personally eventually plan on buying a female spinner to breed recessive males to (or maybe even a couple spinner females het albino, hypo, axanthic, etc. depending on where I am in a couple years). I would feel somewhat limited by dominant males because while you can breed them to multiple females, you are basically keeping those females out of any other projects you could be doing. Also, because the homozygous and heterozygous dominant phenotype is identical, not only can you not tell any homozygous or heterozygous animals apart, but also you can only really go for combos with them. With codominant mutations, you can go for the homozygous genotype, which has a more extreme phenotype, and thus demands a higher price

[Turbo Serpent]

Dominant traits are dead ends in a small collection. Once you have the trait, it doesn't magnify itself with a super form, but can become a combo. But if you have a small collection that trait can only be added so many times, whereas the co-dom trait can be added then magnified down the road with its super form.

DOMINANT GENES
For example:
Spider x Pinstripe = 25% Spider, 25% Pinstripe, 25% Spinner, 25% Normal

Then next year that Spinner if bred to either parent will simply yield more of the above in a different assorted percentage.

Spinner x Spider = 37.5% Spider, 12.5% Pinstripe, 37.5% Spinner, 12.5% Normal
Spinner x Pinstripe = 37.5% Pinstripe, 12.5% Spider, 37.5% Spinner, 12.5% Normal

CO-DOM GENES
For example:
Pastel x Cinnamon = 25% Pastel, 25% Cinnamon, 25% Pewter, 25% Normal

Then next year you breed the pewter back to one of the parents and you then have chances at:

Pewter x Cinnamon = 12.5% Normal, 12.5% Pastel, 25% Cinnamon, 12.5% Super Cinnamon, 25% Pewter, 12.5% Silver Bullet
Pewter x Pastel = 12.5% Normal, 12.5% Cinnamon, 25% Pastel, 12.5% Super Pastel, 25% Pewter, 12.5% Silver Streak

And so on and so forth... You can continually breed to get the super forms and it makes the breeding more interesting. Granted... dominant genes have their place as well.

[kc261]

Animals, male or female, with just a single dom trait are going to feel a little bit like dead ends in your breeding projects. That is the nature of a dom gene. However, spiders and pinstripes are both very beautiful animals in their own right, and they make some wonderful combos.

Having a single dom gene animal in your collection is definitely more useful than having a normal.

I think whether you would want to pick up a male or female depends partly on what you want to do with them, and what you already have in your collection. A dom female will stay useful much longer than a dom male, whom you will probably decide to retire within a few years because you have replaced him with a combo male.

Personally, I think they are particularly nice for having to breed to recessive males for starting combo recessive/dominant projects.

I kind of disagree with this. I think it is better to have the recessive visual be the female. That way you can breed a co-dom male to her to get the co-dom het recessive offspring, and as long as you are a little lucky and get a male that matures pretty quickly, you can produce the co-dom combo the very next year. You can even do who's-your-daddy clutches with her, because you know every hatchling will still be at least 100% het. Although it does, once again, come down to what you want to produce. If you really love albinos and want to produce every albino combo possible, you'll get there a lot faster with an albino male than an albino female, even though it takes longer to get to the first combo.

[EmberBall]

If you want a Pinstripe morph, which sex you buy depends on how much you like the morph, and what males you have. I like the Pinstripe, but not enough to want to make a ton of them, so I went with a female. Buying a male Pin lets you breed him to a few different females, but with no super, the male can never make you a super. By buying the female, and using a Pastel YB male or Sulfur mojave male, I can make my Pinstripes with my Pin female, and make awesome crosses with my double co dom males. I use the same logic for a Spider. I got a female Spider, bred her to my Sulfur Mojave male, made Sulfur Spiders, Mojave Spiders, and Spiders. I now have kept back the Sulfur Spider and Mojave Spider females, and have added a Cinnabee female by selling the Sulfur babies.

My opinion, buy males that can produce a Super. If you must have a Pin male, buy a LemonBlast or if you must have a Spider male, I say buy a Bee. Then you have your Super maker male, and your Pin or Spider making male.

Dave

[PweEzy]

Thanks for some thoughts on the situation. My use for the pinstripe would be combos, for instance kingpin and pastel kingpin and what not. I do see how having a male dom would slow down the future combo potential. In regards to the quote about a small collection... my collection will probably be fairly small untill I am able to start successfully breeding, so I guess I should maybe just wait on the pin and get a co dom instead. As far as males, I only have a het pied, and will be picking up a lesser here pretty soon. I figure I should get the females first so they can grow and just get the males as the females get closer to ready. So for co dom female I have been thinking maybe black pastel, or maybe cinnamon....other than a YB what are some other options. I have a female pastel, and plan on waiting til the lesser breeds a female for BEL's.
Thanks again for all the good insights!

[andyspythons]

i would say male he can breed at 500 to 600 and a female needs to be 1500 grams