The good 'ol blue eyed lucy complex

[Skyespirit86]

I need some help...

I so far understand the basic idea that breeding lessers, mojaves, het russos, butters, phantoms, mochas to each other gives you a 25% chance of a BEL. And do ALL of these when bred to another of their own always have the same chance of making a BEL too?

What are specials, and mystics? How do they work? What do they look like?

Where did the lesser platinum come from? I remember reading it came from platinums or something...? Or does it just resemble them?

What is it I hear about phantoms and mystics being the same thing?

Are there any other BEL-making mutations I have missed?
All help appreciated!

[MustBeSatan]

Wow, okie dokie...

Pretty sure you listed all the het BELs... And yeah, they would all have a 25% chance of producing a BEL if bred in any combination with each other.

As far as "What are specials, and mystics? How do they work? What do they look like?" Goes... Mystics are a morph... Specials? I'm not sure on this one, maybe someone else knows what "Special" bp you might be referencing.

The original Platinum was imported by RDR in 1999, and the offspring it produced were called Lesser Platinum because they weren't quite as ...Platinum... as the... Platinum... Erm... In any case, Davis theorised that there was something else involved in the genetics of the original Platinum, perhaps a simple recessive morph as well as the Lesser Platinum gene. Anyways, Lesser Platinum is now a well established morph, and as far as I know (although I learn from that there "intarweb" so I may not know much) there is only one "Platinum"; the original RDR import.

Um, so now we went back to the mystics... And um... It's sorta like the Candy and the Toffee, if you're familiar with them... Two morphs that look an awful lot like one another but that haven't been tested much to prove it (last I heard it was decided based on the Toffee offspring that the Candy and the Toffee are most likely one and the same). Or so I understand it.

You didn't miss any, unless some exist that we don't know of yet (or I am unaware of, but I HIGHLY doubt it, because I asked Google, and Google knows everything.)

I guess the moral of the story is, Google is great, and posting a bazillion different rapid-fire questions on forums is less great. Hope this helped clear up some confusion.

[Inugohan]

From what I understand specials are part of the platty complex much like the super stripe. With lessers they make platinums, or platty daddies, with butters they make butter daddies, with mojaves they make crystals, and I am sure they will react with phantoms if it is ever tried. This is mainly a theory of mine, but I have done my research and it is accurate to what I have learned for myself. ~Caylan.S.~

[RandyRemington]

I think "hidden" is the version of the gene (allele) that combines with lesser to make platy. It's perhaps the oddest member of this complex in that both the hets with normal and even the homozygous hidden apparently look normal. It's just that when combined with lesser, hidden makes platy.

I understand that special is a visual morph (and another allele of this complex) and when combined with mojave makes crystal. Also unlike hidden the homozygous special is a stunning morph.

Mystic and phantom might be the same and are in this complex. Phantom with lesser makes a leucistic (karma) but most of the other combos so far involving these two seem to make darker animals.

[dr del]

Hi,

I wish I understood the hidden gene.

My lesser came from a daughter of the other platinum ( a female owned by E.B.Noah in Africa ) so he is F2 by my understanding.

Now if I only knew if that made him a 50% possible het for hidden or (if it is an allele ) definately not carrying the hidden gene purely because he is a lesser.

It would really simplify the future projects he could be involved in.

I did ask if I could buy one of the normal looking offspring from the platymamma but was told Noah doesn't bother to keep these seperate and just sells them as normals.


dr del

[Royal Morphz]

From what I understand specials are part of the platty complex much like the super stripe. With lessers they make platinums, or platty daddies, with butters they make butter daddies, with mojaves they make crystals, and I am sure they will react with phantoms if it is ever tried. This is mainly a theory of mine, but I have done my research and it is accurate to what I have learned for myself. ~Caylan.S.~

Well this statement is all wrong except where the Special X Mojave makes a Crystal. To my understanding the only BEL complex snakes that the specials have been crossed with is the Original with a Mojave by Tom Baker and the Lesser by BHB. The Platty Daddy has been the only Father to any other Platty Daddy.

[Russ Lawson]

The Platty Daddy has been the only Father to any other Platty Daddy.

Not true. Platinums have been made multiple times with normal looking offspring sired by platinums (and in one instance in Europe, a lesser bred to what was thought to be a normal). Ralph Davis has also made butter platties. I am not aware of any other BEL complex cross with the hidden gene, though Ralph may have done more last year since a lot of his clutches weren't revealed to the public.

[Royal Morphz]

Sorry I should have been a bit clearer I was meaning that the Special is in no way involved in the Platty Daddy making

[OhhWatALoser]

I so far understand the basic idea that breeding lessers, mojaves, het russos, butters, phantoms, mochas to each other gives you a 25% chance of a BEL. And do ALL of these when bred to another of their own always have the same chance of making a BEL too?

Chance are the same yes. but not all will make a BEL
lesser/mojave/het russo/butter/phantoms/mocha/mystic bred to a lesser/mojave/het russo/butter/mocha will make a BEL.

phantom x phantom makes super phantom
mystic x mystic makes super mystic (guess they look like super phantoms tho I can't really recall seeing a picture)

What are specials, and mystics? How do they work? What do they look like?

already explained.

Where did the lesser platinum come from? I remember reading it came from platinums or something...? Or does it just resemble them?

listen to Russ Lawson, genetics are pretty simple, the "hidden" gene is part of the BEL complex, when combined with the lesser gene it makes a platinum, problem is the "hidden" gene doesn't appear to be visual on its own, but if you bred a platinum to a normal, you know all the normal looking babies are "hidden" gene snakes.

What is it I hear about phantoms and mystics being the same thing?

just like butters and lessers they are the same thing. different lines of the same morph. they still make the same "supers", combos with other morphs behave the same. just like a lemon pastel and a bell pastel. same morph diffferent line.

Are there any other BEL-making mutations I have missed?

not to my knowledge

[Inugohan]

As it appears to me(again I'm just making theories at this point) the het daddy gene is more of a Dilute hidden gene, that only becomes apparent when bred with one of the luecy complex genes. So I tried to make a connection between the "special" and the "het daddy" gene possibly being one in the same. As far as I know, special's have not been crossed with lessers, and het daddy hasn't been crossed with mojo. So I can't make the call, but this is my input on it. It's not to say that my statement was wrong, as it's really just a hypothesis. Anyway, just thought I would back myself, so I'm no longer seen as a stupid noob who doesn't know what he's talking about. ~Caylan.S.~