Help getting Bredli to eat?

[Artic_exotics]

First off I'd like to say these are not my first carpets.

I currently have a jungle and a coastal seperate from these two in my personal collection and have had several come through the halfway house.

I know they sometimes take a while to get started and I know that many users will say something along the lines of 'just be patient'... I know this because thats what I would say to someone else as well.

So for anyone that may offer some advice other than 'just be patient' here is whats going on.

I bought a female '09 Bredli from Ben seigel.

{side note: He has been very good to us and has a wonderful reputation (check the boi) within the community and I am in NO way trying to claim any foul play here on his part. }

She came in with one eye much larger than the other and dent in her big eye. We named her anamoly. So far the dent has came out.

We informed Ben of the issue, and sent him some pictures of the eyes and whatnot. He promptly apologized for the mix up and sent us out a replacement female bredli free of charge, and encouraged us to keep anamoly as well. he even paid the shipping charge which is more than alot are willing to do. The second bredli came in cosmetically perfect, we've been very satisfied with ben's customer service.

prior to the purchase I had inquired as to what they were eating and he had assured me they were eating live mice pinks, so we waited 3 days and then put in a mouse pink at about 9pm shut the lid and that was that. Next morning, both pinks are still there.

So we waited another 5 days, tried again, same results.

Next round we tried prekilled, no results.

Next round we tried braining- no results. (worked for our coastal who was picky at first and pounds em down now)

At this time, they were being housed in a 6 qt shoebox, which a plastic perch built in that ran both directions in the tank, a comfortably sized water dish, paper towel substrate, and a whole mess load of hides on both sides. They were placed on a rack where the temperature is controlled. they have an 80 degree ambient temp and about 95 for basking. The humidity has some fluctuations from day to night but its around 50 usually. I originally thought this may be a little too hot but ive been reassured that it was perfect.

So I wrote ben back, and we had some friendly banter over the biz and I brought up the bredli's are not eating still and so he told me exactly how he keeps his (two of the siblings are now eating fuzzies im told).. Shoebox, aspen shavings, remove the hides and raise the temp to 84... And I followed it to the letter for 5 days then put a 10day old mouse in ( a little furrier and moves a bit more than a peach fuzzy)... They both were interested in it, flicking their tongues around at it and watching it from the perch, so i had some hope

Woke up and checked them, No results. Both fuzzies are still alive.

hmm....

I dont think its parasites, no other symptoms- and they have poo'd and that seems okay... but it is possible. Could it be worms? I have had to panacur larger reptiles before and I feel confident I could do it again if I could get the dosages down small enough. But I dont wanna risk it at this point if it could be something else.

Unfortunately, I live in a place that the nearest actual herp vet is 154 miles away, or else I would have already took them to be checked for it.

The second one seems to be getting a bit more lethargic than the first... they both have a bit of the typical sunken in look to them, Not very much though.. Will load pics as soon as i get the camera charged.

What do I try next?

Ive heard lizard scenting works...

Ive heard the chicken broth thing..

Ive heard to try to starve them out for two weeks. (being we are on 6 weeks now and they reportedly were already started im less comfortable with this option)

Any husbandry changes that might help?

Anyone had this problem before with bredlis specifically?

thanks.

[Clear]

Try putting them in a small container with the food for a night and see if they eat then. I had to do that to get my jungles to eat for the first time.

[Artic_exotics]

ok that sounds reasonable and non-invasive... i've already been told to attempt the assist feed. Ive done it before but im not willing to go that far yet.... I thought the shoebox would be small enough, but I'll try something even smaller, like a snack food storage container (4'' by 4'') or smaller than that like a deli cup?

[mainbutter]

1) double check husbandry. You sound like you know what you're doing and I probably don't have to say this, but it's worth saying just in case
2) feed at night. Again, I might not need to say this
3) if your snake might be feeling insecure, go ahead and provide a hide or two. I know these aren't snakes that everyone typically provides hides for, but I provide two hides for my coastal and she makes use of them often enough that I'm glad they're in there.

I'm not a bredli expert but I figured I'd at least mention those couple of things just in case you haven't covered those bases yet.

[bhmorrill]

I have gotten LOTS of carpets eating, and mouse pinks is NOT the way to go. If I were you I would leave them completely alone for a week or so and then throw in a fuzzy. Not just barely with hair, a full on fuzzy. The only reason why they wouldn't be able to take down a fuzzy would be if they had other health problems going on. If you can, take a pic of them in your hand so that I can see their size and body weight and I can tell you if I would be worried or not. More than likely you are just fine and they are just fine. 90% of the time when stuff like this happens everything is fine and the advice to just be patient works. But, if you are worried they are losing a significant amount of body weight then I would be concerned. So, feel free to post some pics, and let us know how they do for you. I'll cross my fingers for you. I for sure understand the stress of problem feeders! I was assist feeding a tri-colored hognose this morning at 3 am. Gotta love it But, at least in my experience, the vast majority come around and do just fine, so don't let it stress you out too much.

[Artic_exotics]

Working on the pictures. I know its irritating not having them, Sorry Guys!!!

They have lost some weight, 9%. ( i have a .1 gram accurate scale I use thats how I got the numbers).... Its not a whole lot for six weeks time but they are babies and its enough to drive me crazy!!!

Everyone else on the rack is doing great like champs. but just in case I double checked the individual temps/humidity on both tubs... still perfect temp altough the humidity is down to 45%. Im assuming thats different because they are the only ones on the rack with the aspen/no hides setup. (Im not fond of it and would rather return them to paper towel with the hides).

Are they really humidity sensitive cause Ive never had that problem over 5% humidity before... but hey there is a first for everything. And no thats not a crazy suggestion, its prolly the first thing I would have said as well. Its just good judgement to check the husbandry, and to be sure to be sure, and then check it again!

I read on aussie pythons forum to try the brown paper bag stapled shut with the prey item trick. Sounds pretty similiar to the smaller enclosure suggestion. But darker= more secure, Think i'll try that next.

The fuzzy I gave them did have a full coat but just barely they were measured at 10 days old and just over 5 grams in weight. I will definately try bigger, maybe something in the uh say 8-10 grams... in the hopper range?

I know a lot of peeps will suggest rats or start theirs straight on rat. And I wish I could! but unfortunately alaska banned the import of rats in 2007.. (no joke check this out --> http://www.stoprats.org/laws.htm)

So there is no imports of live rats.. only the dead frozen ones.

Or if your lucky you can get your hands on the decendents of a pre-ban pair of albino rats to start a breeding colony. I say albino cause they are the only rat legal to own in alaska even pre-ban. ugh. Try the pet stores if you must but you'll be looking at a $12 a rat price tag, if they have them... and not the healthiest looking things.

I was one of the only people on the peninsula to have a breeding colony of the buggers (that I knew of) untill they all died of heatstroke in two days time... So I cant do live rats although I can do the F/t.

Thanks everyone for the help. Ill keep ya posted.

[Artic_exotics]

well heres the update.

Got the first one to eat (anamoly).

had a spare f/t mouse fuzzy, threw it in no dangling or any of that. didnt figure it would work because we already tried that but a few minutes later... ta dah.... guess she just wasnt hungry till then. (yes yes the be patient thing lol)

The other one is still as stubborn. they are siblings from the same clutch, so i figured same would work with the sister. not so much. we're trying a live fuzzy in the brown paper bag thing tonight. Any more suggestions if that doesnt work??

[DavidG]

Id suggest a pillow case over a brown paper bag. No clue why, but it's the method I've always heard. If that does not work reclose the pillow case and put the bag in the car. Go find a bumpy road and drive it a few times. Sometimes the unsettling movement will encourage them to eat. No clue how it works, but many stubborn feeders in a lot of species are fed the first meal this way when they are stubborn. Fuzzy mice hold more of that scent the snakes love with some fur and what not so it makes them more prone to eat. Also, it allows them to constrict easier on a slightly bigger target.

If none of this works I suggest weighing the animal, leaving it undisturbed in a quite room for two week intervals before trying to feed.

[Colin Vestrand]

i agree with Ben 100%...

i once had 3 really stubborn feeders... they went 6 months before taking their first meal.

first one went for live hoppers (yes they can easily eat a live hopper that's 3x their girth), the other two i actually tried to ship to a friend of mine in texas and the shipment got messed up and they came back to me. upon taking them out of the package and putting them in tubs, they were immediately 'cured' and ate f/t rat pinks... true story!

so, number one, there is most likely nothing wrong with them. number two, just be patient and maybe ship them to yourself

[Artic_exotics]

Well, the brown paper bag thing did not in fact work. So last week we broke down and got ahold of an anole, and we rubbed a warm F/T fuzzy on it, and placed it at the end of tongs, and voila! She took. No constriction and it was a long slooow process but given the exhausting 10 week feed strike, I was more than overjoyed to just have something in her. We've offered her two more unscented's since then and i am pleased to say she took them, and the third she even tried to throw a few coils around. Anomaly refused another two after the first but has been solid ever since. (I put them on the double feed to regain the weight they lost I dont usually feed on this schedule)

Usually this would seem normal for babies who havent ate before but ben told me they had already been eating before, and I believe him. So it just seemed weird for such tiny little ones to go on a ten week feed strike literally refusing over 20 mice before deciding to eat again.

I suppose I'll let the experience be a lesson in "patience" LoL.

P.s. The anole was never harmed other than the minor stress of having to be held to have the mouse rubbed on it.

Thanks to everyone who replied. It kept me sane throughout the ordeal.