Freakin' Rodents.......

[Mitch21]

Hm... maybe I'll put one of my leftover UTHs under the tub to keep things cozy...

[wishexotics]

I don't breed ASF's, but I do breed rats/mice on a large commercial scale. It is extremely common for first time moms to kill her litter. Sometimes they will go through two litters before they have a successful litter. One big thing with mom rats/mice is they need a constant water and food supply. They also need to feel comfortable and safe. I separate my moms from the breeders when they are pregnant, I would suggest trying this. Temperature, food and water are the main causes for crashes in a colony. Even just a day or two without water can be very detrimental to your colonies. Nursing moms need more attention and care than the rest of the colony. They are expending all of there energy and resources to take care of 10+ babies. Feeding a higher protein and fat diet can help. I can get protein and fat ratios for you. As for bedding I use a mixture of pine pellets and recycled paper insulation "carefresh". The paper used for house insulation is the same as carefresh, but cheaper and a finer ground product. Nothing like buying 50lb bags for the price of a 5lb bag of carefresh. It works great and last until the weekly cleanings. The order has been cut down greatly with this mixture. It sounds like your general setup is good. What is the ratio of male to female in your cage? Do you give your females a chance to recuperate after the babies are weaned, if not I would suggest to do so. A word of caution with the wheel. I had a pet rat rip its tail off in a metal wheel. I would suggest the wodent wheel. It is all plastic, with no danger of harming your rats. Any questions just ask. Good luck.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I don't breed ASF's, but I do breed rats/mice on a large commercial scale. It is extremely common for first time moms to kill her litter. Sometimes they will go through two litters before they have a successful litter. One big thing with mom rats/mice is they need a constant water and food supply. They also need to feel comfortable and safe. I separate my moms from the breeders when they are pregnant, I would suggest trying this. Temperature, food and water are the main causes for crashes in a colony. Even just a day or two without water can be very detrimental to your colonies. Nursing moms need more attention and care than the rest of the colony. They are expending all of there energy and resources to take care of 10+ babies. Feeding a higher protein and fat diet can help. I can get protein and fat ratios for you. As for bedding I use a mixture of pine pellets and recycled paper insulation "carefresh". The paper used for house insulation is the same as carefresh, but cheaper and a finer ground product. Nothing like buying 50lb bags for the price of a 5lb bag of carefresh. It works great and last until the weekly cleanings. The order has been cut down greatly with this mixture. It sounds like your general setup is good. What is the ratio of male to female in your cage? Do you give your females a chance to recuperate after the babies are weaned, if not I would suggest to do so. A word of caution with the wheel. I had a pet rat rip its tail off in a metal wheel. I would suggest the wodent wheel. It is all plastic, with no danger of harming your rats. Any questions just ask. Good luck.

We are not talking about normal rats or mice. The things you do for normal rats would NOT work for ASF's. Please see the ASF caresheet for more info. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=70828

With ASF's, what you are suggesting here would end in a total blood bath! Please read up on the species before making suggestions!

[wishexotics]

There is no need for the harsh reply. I do understand ASFS are 'different' from normal rats/mice. I still feel like my suggestions are worth the time to explore. Since ASFS are still "new" to the trade there is still a lot of learning being done on keeping and breeding them. As for the idea of seperation, I never said it would work for these rats. It is just something that works for my colonies. Also all rats and mice are social creatures doing better in colonies. They will all work as a community to help raise young. So your idea of them being nothing alike is a false statement. They are all similar in many ways. They are thought to be the evolutionary link between the true mice and the true rat having characteristics of both. If this statement is true then they are more closely related than you believe. Evolution is an amazing thin. In the world animal breeding there is always room for improvement and being inventive in trying new ideas. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS!

[greghall]

They are as easy as normal rats just don't mix males.ive had mine for 7 or 8 months no proplems.mice are the proplem for me!

[Wild Bill]

There is no need for the harsh reply. I do understand ASFS are 'different' from normal rats/mice. I still feel like my suggestions are worth the time to explore. Since ASFS are still "new" to the trade there is still a lot of learning being done on keeping and breeding them. In the world animal breeding there is always room for improvement and being inventive in trying new ideas. I never said I was an expert on breeding or keeping ASFS. I was merely just giving my two cents on general husbandry of rodents. Some of my ideas may or may not work. Best of luck with ASFS!

ASF rats have been around for awhile now. Many of people have been breeding them and experimenting with it. Seperating females from there groups is the worst thing you can do. When you reintroduce them to the "group", they will KILL her. Everything you know about mice and rats do not apply to these animals.

By the way, what do you consider to be a "commercial scale?"

[greghall]

THERE ARE TO MANY EXPERTS ON HERE MOST DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.RATS ARE RATS THEY BREED THE SAME DIFFERENT LINES ACT DIFFERENTLY SOME AGGRESSIVE SOME NOT.SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERTS ON ASFs HAVE A FEW IN A TEN GALLON TANK & THEY ARE EXPERTS.DANG IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF ABOUT EVERYTHING.& IVE PRODUCED A FEW HUNDRED,& THE GUY I GOT MINE FROM HAS 1000's SO I TALK TO HIM ABOUT ADVICE.

[greghall]

MICE(SUCK) ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT RATS ARE RATS I SEE NO DIFFERENCE FROM MY RATS TO ASF's EXCEPT FOR SWAPPING OUT MALES & SEPERATING FEMALES,MALES ALWAYS STAY IN THE COLONY,STAY TOGETHER TILL DEATH,BUT HAVE CHANGED AROUND A FEW FEMALES & HAVE NOT HAD A PROPLEM SO FAR.

[wishexotics]

ASF rats have been around for awhile now. Many of people have been breeding them and experimenting with it. Seperating females from there groups is the worst thing you can do. When you reintroduce them to the "group", they will KILL her. Everything you know about mice and rats do not apply to these animals.

By the way, what do you consider to be a "commercial scale?"

Well 'normal' rats/mice have been around for a long time too, but people are still learning and experimenting. I also never claimed to be an expert. I believe nobody is truly and expert as we are always learning and improving upon our lives and what we do. I understand you can't add new females to the colonies, you can't do that with mice either. It is best to start out a colony young and cull them at the same time and never add in new females or males. I know everything I know about rats/mice do not apply, but some things I know do. The common rat is a much more social and forgiving creature, as the ASFS and mice are not. They are social, but only within there own group. It is just like wolfs, they contain a dominant male and female. The rest of the group is comprised of their offspring. As the offspring grow and mature some will go off and create new packs some will not. I am not trying to start a fight here, I am only trying to share my knowledge and experience with others. If it helps I am happy for that, and if not I hope some people are still able to learn and apply what I have to say to there needs.

[Wild Bill]

THERE ARE TO MANY EXPERTS ON HERE MOST DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.RATS ARE RATS THEY BREED THE SAME DIFFERENT LINES ACT DIFFERENTLY SOME AGGRESSIVE SOME NOT.SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERTS ON ASFs HAVE A FEW IN A TEN GALLON TANK & THEY ARE EXPERTS.DANG IM STILL LEARNING MYSELF ABOUT EVERYTHING.& IVE PRODUCED A FEW HUNDRED,& THE GUY I GOT MINE FROM HAS 1000's SO I TALK TO HIM ABOUT ADVICE.

Who is that directed at?