Stuck shed???

[Bogertophis]

For anyone still listening, the vet said he’ll never be able to shed by himself again because of this. And that he’s anorexic (direct quote) and he’ll never eat again because he’s been on hunger strike. I feel sick. And like I might need a new vet.

From your photo above, I can't tell what that is, sorry. And I've never heard a vet say such (ridiculous) things before. I can hardly imagine it, honestly- that's so UN-helpful.

"Anorexic" is just an observation...not a disease. Snakes that aren't eating well may easily have trouble shedding- until they improve their nutrition & hydration. Most snakes progress beyond hunger strikes- that's just false! Good grief, he (-?) made you feel awful, & that was just plain cruel.

Doesn't sound like this vet keeps or has kept many snakes, much less has had any luck with keeping them. You might want this: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661

Don't give up...

[Homebody]

For anyone still listening, the vet said he’ll never be able to shed by himself again because of this. And that he’s anorexic (direct quote) and he’ll never eat again because he’s been on hunger strike. I feel sick. And like I might need a new vet.

Anorexic? I know he was a little thin (Too thin?). When did he last eat? Got a recent full body shot?

[Bogertophis]

Here's the thing: If your snake really is "anorexic" to where he has refused food for long enough to be thin & losing weight noticeably (as he sorta looks from that one limited photo?), then it's likely time for further action. Especially if your snake is young & doesn't have fat reserves, it's time to do more. Please don't wait "too long".

Think about when a human goes in the hospital for any illness or injury. If they're unable or unwilling to eat, they have an IV line so they stay functional- without that modest nutritional support, their body cannot function, much less heal...it will fail. And they won't feel good enough for their appetite to return, so they end up in a downward spiral- no appetite, no eating, no improvement, bad outcome.

We don't do IVs on snakes- but what you CAN do is either tube-feed (my personal choice as it has worked well for me many times, & I find it's far easier on the snake than the alternative) or "assist-feed" aka "force-feed" ("the alternative" of which I'm not a fan). If you want detailed instructions for tube-feeding, let me know? I'll happily share my technique- you can totally do this.

What happens when you tube feed a snake: (depending on the cause, of course) It's not meant to replace a full meal- it's meant to supplement & stimulate the appetite with easily digestible food. Often after one or more tube-feedings, a snake's appetite may return & they'll eat on their own. Without that energy, they don't feel like eating & just keep going downhill. Many just need a little help to get going again.

A huge bonus with tube-feeding is the added hydration: many anorexic/thin-underfed snakes are also dehydrated, & without adequate hydration, they cannot digest whole prey ingested, & may regurgitate such meals- which makes things worse- sometimes much worse. Tube feeding, done properly & gently, is very well tolerated, so the snake can actually use the nutrients with added hydration.

It's much like when you're recovering from the flu- when you're ready to start eating again, you don't start off with a cheeseburger & fries.

Again-for how to post pictures here- https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures

You posted these on 1-5-24...Has he eaten since then? If so, how much???
https://flic.kr/p/2pqKzQN

https://flic.kr/p/2pqCH5y

https://flic.kr/p/2pqK85c

[PecanPied]

So, I took him to get a second opinion today. Here’s what they said

Injury: it’s probably infected and has led to various infection through his body. How? I don’t know. I’d been using the vetrycin every day for the past week. She said it was surface level damage and that there’s every chance it’ll fix itself in a few sheds, but also that he’s terribly sick. They sent me home with several syringes of antibiotics to administer and said he needs to be quarantined

Feeding: he’s been on hunger strike since March 3rd, I’ve been offering him food every/other week and he’s shown interest but hasn’t eaten. Vet said he’s too skinny (did NOT say he was anorexic and never eating again, like prior vet) and said I should try to feed him mice, chicks, or quails. They had to force feed him formula at the vet today. She said him hunger striking is really really bad but also that it’s completely normal and out of my hands but ALSO something to feel terribly afraid for

TLDR: things are looking bad. I feel horrible and like I’ve led him to die of some completely preventable disease. I don’t know. There’s the update. I don’t know.

[PecanPied]

I posted another reply but right now the vet wants him to try and eat solids. I’m warming up a medium mouse to see if he’ll eat, she said she specifically doesn’t want him tube fed because “if he doesn’t take it, it’ll rot in his mouth”. He’d been eating perfectly fine every 10 days until March 3rd, when he took the last meal he’s had since being force fed formula this morning at the vet.

I know that he’s too thin and I’m trying to do what I can in order to fix that, but the new vet didn’t have a lot of hope in him eating while he’s sick. He’d gone on for such long hunger strikes before that I just was trying not to be as worried about this one because any time I went to the vet about it prior they brushed it off as being fine if he was thin. I’m sorry if this wasn’t coherent, it’s been a difficult 48 hours.

[Bogertophis]

I'm very glad you took him to see another vet, & it's not our place to dispute your vet, since we're not even seeing your snake in person, & barely seeing him online.
I'm just wondering how your vet decided that he probably has a systemic infection & that he's terribly sick? Did she say what symptoms she based this on?

I agree that a few sheds will likely correct any surface damage- that's the least of the problem anyway.

March 3rd wasn't that long ago for his last meal before he started fasting -unless he was already thin from just not eating enough? But she's right that fasting is bad because it means he has less energy to fight off infections.

If he was just tube-fed at the vet's today, you'd be better off not trying to feed him tonight. I'd wait a day or 2. (-unless your vet fed very little?) You don't want too much food at once to cause a regurge.

I'm glad that your vet did tube feed him a little today, & honestly, it just sounds like she doesn't trust you to do it right? > > >

...she said she specifically doesn’t want him tube fed because “if he doesn’t take it, it’ll rot in his mouth”....

FYI, when you properly tube feed a snake, the tube is deep in the throat, just above the stomach- it's not in the mouth, & the food doesn't really end up in the snake's mouth, but even if some did, it wouldn't necessarily rot there- you could easily rinse his mouth out. That's a strange excuse & a "new one on me", lol. But don't worry about it.

I can easily pm you the tube feeding instructions if you want, & you can print them out & show them to her to see what she says. Not everyone is comfortable tube-feeding a snake, & it's fine just letting her do it- the reason it's best done at home is because sometimes snakes will upchuck it because of handling & the drive home- they need to be kept level or head slightly up, & calm after tube feeding, since liquid comes up easier than solid food does.

And listen, you've been doing your best- try to think positive, okay?

[Armiyana]

i missed the updates on this one. I'm sorry.

that definitely is a strange injury of some kind and not just shed skin. The snake does also seem someone dehydrated/thin/both from the way the skin fold is showing along the side.

FIND A NEW VET. If that is what they told you, they don't sound qualified to be working with ball pythons.
You should definitely try to get this animal tested for some sort of parasite or bacterial condition.
I would do a soak with just regular water for a few minutes. that will give them a chance to drink. After that you can add some iodine in to help flush the wound. if you are able to find some silver sulfadiazine use that on the sore, just gently wipe it clean before the soaks. If you can't find that, you can use neosporin without painkillers, but be sure to use a very thin layer only on the wound. It can affect the still healthy scales.

Double check your temps and any materials he could injure himself on in the habitat.
They can definitely start eating again after a long hunger strike...but you need to find out why the snake's skin is peeling this way (almost similar to snakes I've seen with severe malnutrition or vitamin issue, but not quite) and get them started on a path to recovery.
You may also need to consider a short intervention with tube feeding.

EDIT: somehow my page also was not properly updated and did not show the last couple of updates today as well. Ugh. I should remember to always hit the F5 key XD;
You still have a small window to make things right. It can be hard. But this new vet sounds like they have a much better head on their shoulders.
I recently lost a snake to a sudden infection like this. They hide it really well. I hope that things for yours gets better.

[Bogertophis]

...After that you can add some iodine in to help flush the wound. if you are able to find some silver sulfadiazine use that on the sore, just gently wipe it clean before the soaks. If you can't find that, you can use neosporin without painkillers, but be sure to use a very thin layer only on the wound. It can affect the still healthy scales...

FYI- PecanPied has been using Vetericyn per post #14 above.

[PecanPied]

He didn’t take to the food anyway, I’ll be waiting a day or two then trying again with another medium mouse.
I’ll keep using vetrycin on the wound and hope that helps, I was also given injectable antibiotics to administer every other day and they took a culture swab of the scabbing that I’ll get the results for next week. She said he had some discoloration (two small red spots on his stomach) and because the scarring on his back is somewhat raised and that’s what the signs of infection are

i don’t know why she doesn’t want me tube feeding, but for some reason she was really against the idea of trying to do it at all outside of when she did it today. It’s hard because he hasn’t been acting differently at all, he’s still perfectly active and loves to climb and explore and be handled, and my previous snake died to infections (he was kept with my parents, I was young) and the idea of losing Pecan to infection is making me sick.

[Bogertophis]

He didn’t take to the food anyway, I’ll be waiting a day or two then trying again with another medium mouse.
I’ll keep using vetrycin on the wound and hope that helps, I was also given injectable antibiotics to administer every other day and they took a culture swab of the scabbing that I’ll get the results for next week. She said he had some discoloration (two small red spots on his stomach) and because the scarring on his back is somewhat raised and that’s what the signs of infection are

i don’t know why she doesn’t want me tube feeding, but for some reason she was really against the idea of trying to do it at all outside of when she did it today. It’s hard because he hasn’t been acting differently at all, he’s still perfectly active and loves to climb and explore and be handled, and my previous snake died to infections (he was kept with my parents, I was young) and the idea of losing Pecan to infection is making me sick.

Thanks- you hadn't mentioned his ventral red areas, or puffiness of the scabbed area. That's why it's important to see a vet, & in person whenever possible.

If you can inject antibiotics, you should be fine to tube-feed. I'd rather tube-feed a snake any day. Do talk to your vet- I have a feeling that she's had people do it wrong in the past & totally mess up, & she doesn't know where you're getting your information from. There's plenty of misinformation around.