URGENT Blood Python Very Sick

[Bogertophis]

Thank you everyone for your kind words and advice. She unfortunately was gone by Saturday morning. I've kind of been in shock and unable to muster up enough to type this post until now.

We have her body refrigerated at the moment in the hopes to get an autopsy done. Of course, with the weekend, snow storm, and a federal holiday, we're having to wait until tomorrow (Tuesday) for anywhere to be open.

I have concerns that it could be something contagious and would feel better if we're able to rule that out for the sake of our other snakes. And if I can learn whether or not a mistake was made I'd feel more confident so I won't repeat it.

We had only had her in our care for about a month, and in that time she revealed that she had mites as well as developed symptoms (constant urination) within 2 weeks. She was also very vocal as soon as we brought her home, but we had heard that bloods are louder in general so it didn't concern me. Now I'm starting to wonder if she had respiratory issues, she did a lot of huffing and her breathing was usually very audible.

In your experiences, is it a waste of money to get an autopsy done for a snake? I've been quoted anywhere from $100 - $300. I reached out to the breeder we got her from, asking if they would help cover some of the cost for the sake of their collection as well and in an effort to maintain civility. However it doesn't look like they are wanting to work on a solution with this, and they are quite defensive. I was already unhappy having been sold a snake with mites. Every time we went to pick up supplies etc from them they were always very specific about meeting us outside and not wanting us in the house as well (which I understand for quarantine procedures, but it was a little suspicious that we weren't allowed to see how she was kept at all). I most certainly won't be buying from them again, and if the autopsy was to come back showing it was something she had prior to our care, I'll likely be posting a beware about them.

I'm so sorry that she didn't make it. It wasn't looking good, but you never know. I was curious, but I didn't want to ask you about her condition because I guessed that you just weren't ready to talk about it...so sorry.

I commend you for wanting a necropsy done to get some answers, to learn from mistakes IF there were any but especially to protect your other snakes & to know more about the source of this poor snake. The mites were a big red flag. I'm really not surprised that they're not willing to share your cost. (They could have shown you pictures without jeopardizing their quarantine. )

From your other post, I really doubt that it was anything you did wrong. I hope you know that we were just trying to throw out some ideas as to possible reasons for the odd symptoms you were seeing & at the time, we had very limited information to go on. Again, sorry for your loss. I sure hope you get some answers.

[Malum Argenteum]

That's a drag. I'm sorry for what happened.

I personally would absolutely have a necropsy done. It would be valuable education, and well worth the money spent to possibly have some answers that might ease your mind. I've had a couple necropsies done, and while none of them were completely clear as to what happened they gave enough info to allow for some general understandings as to whether a death was likely husbandry related, or whether suspected pathogens could be ruled out.

Make sure you're very up front about the entire history of the snake as you know it, and mention all the possible suspicions you have about contributing factors so they can specifically look at evidence of those causes. The more info you give, the more efficiently they're going to be able to confirm or rule out hypotheses.

[Armiyana]

Sorry for your loss. That really sucks.
I had a snake pass very suddenly as a new acquisition. Because of the number of reptiles I own I definitely did not hesitate on a necropsy and viral testing. At the very least it will give you peace of mind

Regarding the breeder, you can't post a beware on MorphMarket, but if she was purchased through the site I would consider contacting support regarding the situation. You probably won't get anything from it but knowing they'll get a ding on the record. The new management has been alright about taking questionable breeders off the site

[bcr229]

In your experiences, is it a waste of money to get an autopsy done for a snake?

No. Knowing whether or not the snake had something contagious is worth it, and if it did, you will have to take extra precautions to protect the rest of your collection. In a few cases it also let me know that there was nothing that I or the vet could have done to save the snakes, as they passed from cancer.

Having proof that the snake arrived sick (assuming that it did) is also vital for posting warnings about the seller.

[Malum Argenteum]

Regarding the breeder, you can't post a beware on MorphMarket, but if she was purchased through the site I would consider contacting support regarding the situation. You probably won't get anything from it but knowing they'll get a ding on the record.

If an animal was listed on MM and an inquiry was made there, then regardless of how one finalized the sale a seller review can be posted for that animal. If the sale went bad in any way, and it violated any off MM's rules (including selling unhealthy animals), and the seller didn't make it right, I would suspect that MM will help get the seller to make it right.

Yes, they've been good about keeping the place pretty clean, and I've noticed a few bad sellers have been removed in the last year or so.

[Bogertophis]

In a previous thread, I believe the OP got the snake from an expo they attended, but that doesn't mean it wasn't also listed on MM, does it? But it may not have had anything to do with MM- we need more info.

[Armiyana]

If an animal was listed on MM and an inquiry was made there, then regardless of how one finalized the sale a seller review can be posted for that animal.

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant a buyer beware post on the community forum side of things.
Inquiry and ratings on the sales side are absolutely encouraged.

[Malum Argenteum]

Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant a buyer beware post on the community forum side of things.
Inquiry and ratings on the sales side are absolutely encouraged.

Ah, I understand. Sorry for my confusion. I don't participate in the community forum there, and didn't stop to consider what practices they have there.

[55fingers]

Thank you all once again for your suggestions. We purchased her at an expo, but the sellers are on MM. Not sure if it will let me leave a review if I purchased her in person.

I got the necropsy done and just received the results. I mostly understand the findings (impaction and kidney issues, likely dehydration) but if any of you have ideas of what the cause could be with these findings in mind, I would welcome speculation.

The Doctor warned me beforehand that a histology would likely have to be preformed in order to properly determine anything. This would be an extra cost (I think another $100?) and I am looking for advice on whether or not it's a good idea. I'm leaning towards yes because at this point we've already gone this far and I would like to get closer to a solid answer. What do y'all think?

[Malum Argenteum]

I would spend the extra on histology. It would be worth it just for the education, but consider the possibility of making a claim on the seller, and also the value of your other snakes if there is some pathogen at play that would be better to know about, even if only to know how to disinfect the QT setup. Sounds like there's a fair change there's some parasite/pathogen involved, based on the comments in the report.

I'm not sure which if any of those findings are consistent with permethrin exposure. That would be a great thing for your vet to run past a toxicologist (or I suppose the histopath would have a good idea).

'Moderately to severely decreased muscle and adipose tissue' doesn't happen fast in a big adult python. I would suspect that the snake was fighting with something for quite some time. I suppose it might have been kept in too-small caging, which would contribute some to poor body shape, though less in a blood than in a boa or similar.

Looking back through the threads, it seems the snake is seven years old, and a retired breeder, but hasn't had a clutch for 'several years'. Sounds like she had a clutch once and never again, since there's not really time on that calendar for more. That's a little suspicious, and not exactly what I'd call a 'retired breeder'.