Heating pad unstuck

[nvmycj]

Hi gang!

I transitioned my BP into a 20g long enclosure.

During the transition, I noticed my Zoo-med heating pad lost it's adhesion from underneath the tank and was sitting on the 3/4" plywood that the tank was sitting on. The plywood didn't deflect any heat, as evidenced by the crack on my cabinet that the tank was sitting on!!!! Not happy with that. It apparently didn't effect the temp in the tank.

Two questions:

1. Is the heating pad done? No longer usable? Is there an adhesive that's heat tolerant?

2. What heat resistant pads do you guys use to save your cabinet?

Thanks!

[Bogertophis]

I sure hope your heating pad (aka "UTH") is controlled by a thermostat? I ask, because usually it takes a while for one to crack a cabinet if it's not running full-blast. If not, do get that done ASAP, because those Zoo-Meds get too hot- your snake can get a thermal burn over 90*- you want all surface temps in the tank to be less than that, with a cooler side (about 77-80*) so the snake can thermoregulate (cool down) as needed.

I actually don't use the Zoo-Med kind of heat, though I tried one or 2 many years ago- didn't care for them (because they get so hot & because of that nasty adhesive). I use heat tapes -the original Flex-Watt- https://beanfarm.com/products/paneli...e-110v-20-watt (or the narrower type) https://beanfarm.com/collections/heating Other similar brands are around too, fyi- https://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-tape Not saying you need to change, btw, but in case yours is toast or you just want to know what's out there?

So here's what I do- I put something under the tanks & on top of wood cabinets so if the UTH did come unstuck, it won't be laying on the wood. Best thing is thin ceramic tiles*- they're a good "heat sink" (they retain some heat, but soften the effect on the wood below) & you can even put something under the tile(s) if there's room, like some felt or thin sheet cork, to further protect the wood. If you visit a store that installs flooring (carpet & tiles & linoleum), just ask them for a few tiles leftover from one of their jobs- doesn't matter what color, but just make SURE it won't be too thick- your don't want the glass totally resting on the tiles/UTH.

[Armiyana]

For my heat mats, I've used that foil tape to hold mine to a tank. I actually prefer it to sticking them on sometimes so I don't risk ruining it with removal.
If it just unstuck itself it should be okay. It's only a risk of you peel it. If there's no airflow under the tank as well, yeah it was probably at full blast a lot of the time which heats up as high as 130F from what I've personally seen. I hope the probe stayed stuck to the glass at least to protect the critter but sucks about the cabinet

[Malum Argenteum]

Just to stave off any ungrounded worries, the heat mat didn't crack the cabinet. The amount of time and degree of heat that it would take to damage wood under and below 3/4 plywood isn't something that a heat mat could generate without severe damage to the mat and tank above (to say nothing of the snake).

Heat mats are commonly used directly attached to PVC (which starts to soften in water just off the boil -- 200F or so), under polypropylene tubs (melting point in the low 300sF), very safely.

FYI, the R value (insulating value) of plywood is slightly more than that of ceramic tile, and plywood can be had that's thicker than tiles. The R value of a 3/8" tile is 0.375, and that of 3/4" plywood is 0.93.

[Bogertophis]

Just to clarify my previous answer, the reason I use ceramic tiles under my tanks & UTH is that it's non-flammable, not for the R-value. I agree that 3/4" plywood is highly insulating.

As far a "cracking cabinets", I've only had one similar experience- or really 2, since I have identical coffee tables used to hold a couple of large tanks. These coffee tables are made of oak that is pieced together lengthwise for the tops, & they weren't the most expensive furniture around. The continual heating from the UTH above does appear to have accelerated the drying out & separating of the glue holding some of the wood pieces together, but the tables remain completely intact, & they're quite old at this point- a good thirty+ years! So I'd say that I got my money's worth even if they fell apart right now, which they're not doing. I think I noticed the cracks after about 15 years? (It hasn't been practical to lift up the tanks to oil the furniture underneath, but if I had, that may have helped?)

[nvmycj]

Just to stave off any ungrounded worries, the heat mat didn't crack the cabinet. The amount of time and degree of heat that it would take to damage wood under and below 3/4 plywood isn't something that a heat mat could generate without severe damage to the mat and tank above (to say nothing of the snake).

Heat mats are commonly used directly attached to PVC (which starts to soften in water just off the boil -- 200F or so), under polypropylene tubs (melting point in the low 300sF), very safely.

FYI, the R value (insulating value) of plywood is slightly more than that of ceramic tile, and plywood can be had that's thicker than tiles. The R value of a 3/8" tile is 0.375, and that of 3/4" plywood is 0.93.

I thought the same thing, thinking that 3/4" plywood would be a GREAT insulator. When I moved the tank, the heat pad was just sitting on the plywood. When I touched the underside of the plywood, it was more than warm! When I touched the cabinet surface, it was toasty.

I know terms like "toasty" and "more than warm" are subjective. My laser gun is on it's way, so that will give me more precise description.

[nvmycj]

Just to clarify my previous answer, the reason I use ceramic tiles under my tanks & UTH is that it's non-flammable, not for the R-value. I agree that 3/4" plywood is highly insulating.

As far a "cracking cabinets", I've only had one similar experience- or really 2, since I have identical coffee tables used to hold a couple of large tanks. These coffee tables are made of oak that is pieced together lengthwise for the tops, & they weren't the most expensive furniture around. The continual heating from the UTH above does appear to have accelerated the drying out & separating of the glue holding some of the wood pieces together, but the tables remain completely intact, & they're quite old at this point- a good thirty+ years! So I'd say that I got my money's worth even if they fell apart right now, which they're not doing. I think I noticed the cracks after about 15 years? (It hasn't been practical to lift up the tanks to oil the furniture underneath, but if I had, that may have helped?)

I also thought it would be a great source of insulation. Guess I was wrong per my description on my earlier post reply.

I've purchased a silicone mat to further insulate my heat pad. If the pad is good enough for curling irons, I would assume it's good enough for a heating pad.

I am purchasing a temperature controlled thermostat TODAY!

Just a means of clarification, why/how could a snake burn itself with an UTH pad? The pad is stuck underneath the outside of the tank, with about 3-4" of coconut husk substrate, and his hide is sitting on that. The temp of the warm side hide never exceeds 89 degrees. The temp probe is sitting on top of the substrate in his hide. The only way I see him injuring himself is if he burrows down through the substrate.

Thanks for your help!

[Bogertophis]

I also thought it would be a great source of insulation. Guess I was wrong per my description on my earlier post reply.

I've purchased a silicone mat to further insulate my heat pad. If the pad is good enough for curling irons, I would assume it's good enough for a heating pad.

I am purchasing a temperature controlled thermostat TODAY!

Just a means of clarification, why/how could a snake burn itself with an UTH pad? The pad is stuck underneath the outside of the tank, with about 3-4" of coconut husk substrate, and his hide is sitting on that. The temp of the warm side hide never exceeds 89 degrees. The temp probe is sitting on top of the substrate in his hide. The only way I see him injuring himself is if he burrows down through the substrate.

Thanks for your help!

Silicone pad sounds great- there's more than one good way to do things. It's like in medicine: First, do no harm. Also: Thermostats are only good when correctly installed. Ask if not sure.

Yes- you just figured it out. Sooner or later, snakes burrow- substrate gets pushed away, & that hot floor underneath can "burn" the snake. Again, no (!) surface temperature is safe for a snake to lay on when it's over 90*. And you're asking for trouble with 3-4" of substrate, because that is actually "insulation"- it's going to prevent most of the heat from rising into the snake's home where it's needed, and might even overheat the UTH. No wonder it came unstuck...

Keep the substrate to no more than 1" deep over UTH- many say .5"- but it depends on the kind of substrate- some is more dense than other kinds. BPs are not big at burrowing either, so it's not like yours will be suffering from the lack of burrowing material- but if you want, you could always give him a deep container-full to burrow in on the "cool" side of his home instead to "play in"- just make sure it's never over the UTH. See? 3-4" of substrate is a waste of resources anyway.

One more thing that comes up now & then- remember you're roughly 98.6*, so that 90* surface won't feel hot to you, it will feel cool. Same goes for water (people sometimes try to soak or wash their snakes in water that feels nice & warm to them, only it feels HOT to their poor pet. So get & use an accurate thermometer ("temp. gun"). Many snakes have been known to sustain "burn" injuries after laying on surfaces that were too warm to be safe for them, & for unknown reasons they don't get off in time- burns are painful, may become infected & ooze, take a long time to heal, & may be fatal depending on the severity. A snake may first show some redness (pinkness) on their ventral scales, so watch for that. (Which is confusing because some snakes also do that pre-shed. You need to be a "detective" when you keep snakes- )

And btw, you seem to be catching on quite fast- so don't feel bad for getting some things wrong...feel GREAT for asking & learning better ways to do this stuff.

[Malum Argenteum]

I'm reconsidering my statement above. I suppose with no thermostat and way too much insulating substrate, all bets are off. With a temp of 89F on top of 4" of coco chip and all that above an air gap, the temps underneath must have been quite high. I'm glad nothing worse happened.

How large was the original enclosure, and what size is the heating pad? I'm curious in part to understand what sort of situation could cause the damage you mention, and also to figure out if maybe a new and larger heat pad would be a good idea (I like to shoot for about a third of the enclosure warm, ideally tapering off to the cool side). After running it at such high temps, it may be a good idea anyway.

[Bogertophis]

I'm reconsidering my statement above. I suppose with no thermostat and way too much insulating substrate, all bets are off. With a temp of 89F on top of 4" of coco chip and all that above an air gap, the temps underneath must have been quite high. I'm glad nothing worse happened.

How large was the original enclosure, and what size is the heating pad? I'm curious in part to understand what sort of situation could cause the damage you mention, and also to figure out if maybe a new and larger heat pad would be a good idea (I like to shoot for about a third of the enclosure warm, ideally tapering off to the cool side). After running it at such high temps, it may be a good idea anyway.

For snakes like BPs or large boas that need more warmth, I agree, I'd prefer to heat about a third of the floor too. And also depending on room or home temperatures & local climate. As long as they have at least 1/3 of the floor that's off the heat just for safety.

@ nvmycj- You see, we (Malum Argenteum & I) both have lots of years experience keeping many snakes, & often it still helps to discuss the best methods & answers to problems, because each situation is a little different. Plus it's harder online, since we're not seeing what might otherwise be obvious in person. I'm sure glad nothing worse happened too- safety is the most important thing. Keeping reptiles isn't as simple or obvious as some pet stores make it sound- I think they don't want to scare off sales by making it sound too complex.

Ideally, it's better to completely set-up & test run an enclosure for a week or more with no occupants, & adjust the temperatures when you won't be affecting a resident. Since yours just ate, it's super important that he not be too cool (for digestion) now.