Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes Arizona

[Mistery510]

Hi Everyone!

So I just got my 1.1 pair or Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes on 10/16/2023. I got them from my local Reptile store so I am still gathering information on them such as birthday the parents. I've searched all over here for information and I keep finding Miss Bogertophis answering everyone's questions lol.

The female is about 24 inches long (give or take, you know guy measurements lol) and the male is literally half her size. Is this much sexual dimorphism that normal? After looking around I feel mine are maybe 6 months to yearling old. If you think otherwise please let me know.

I know Bogertophis said to leave them in their new homes until at least three feedings but my girl just wants to hang out with me and just chill so much. The male not so much lol. I open the tank and she comes sliding up to me.

Fun story on how I got them!!!! So I had an extra 40 gal tank at my house and had been wanting to get a few Black African house snakes. I had seen a few at the reptile store a few days prior and figured Id go and back an pick up a few and become the Black African House Snake King of Arizona lol... So I went and Bam, they were finally sold after being there for almost 1.5 months. So I was lost and not sure what to get, They had a Black Mexican King Snake but I just wasn't sure lol, I then saw a beautiful HET type Python and man he was beautiful... SO I contemplated and the shop owner was like "I'll give you the BP and the Black king snake for $200 out the door".... It was tempting... But then I saw this female Trans Pecos just chilling in the back of her place. I remember her from about 2 weeks before and was intrigued lol. So i asked to see her and her came over and pulled out TWO!!!!! One male and one Female... I'm like Woah!!! lol.. and held the Female and she immediately just hung out with me... I knew I wanted her and kinda wanted the male as well. They were asking $200 for her and $200 for him. So I asked him what deal can I do and he said "$175 out the door for Both but bring us back 1 baby".. lol I was SOLD!!!!!!

So can you guys help me figure out what type she is and what age you think she might be. I don't have any pictures of the male yet. as he's still hiding in his hide. She's more of a tan color and not orange.

All pictures of the Female.

[Homebody]

So can you guys help me figure out what type she is and what age you think she might be.

Nope. I have no idea. I love that pattern though.

[Mistery510]

Nope. I have no idea. I love that pattern though.

Right!!! It looks like someone held a marker down and she just slid under it

[Bogertophis]

She's a "normal" (wild type) Trans Pecos- my favorite, actually. I don't think the blondes, silvers or other morphs have anything on the normals. I love their dark "H" markings & stripes.

I would guess at least a year+, 1-2 yrs for the female, & 6 mos to yearling on the male- & if anything, the males get longer than the females, so my guess is they had trouble getting this male feeding reliably, & he didn't grow like the female did, or else they are not siblings, & you want to find that out IF you plan to breed them, as it's best to breed UN-related snakes (not brother & sister). Hatchlings start off about 12"- not over 14" long- so it takes a while to get to be 24". I notice her head is very narrow- not so "cheeky" so that suggests she's a bit underfed- which many breeders do so that their snakes don't grow so fast, & buyers still get that 'cute baby stage' for better sales. It's actually a plus getting yearling snakes- they're stronger, more resilient, but I'd make sure they eat well from now on for best health & breeding.

I'd be very careful -especially!- with the male- don't handle- until you have him feeding easily & reliably for a while. Don't overdo it with her either, but it sounds like she's a bit of an extrovert-these are mostly nosy snakes, in my experience, once they find out people are "safe". Just be patient with him- new homes are scary- let him take his time to feel safe.

Sounds like they have some very tempting snakes in your local reptile shop. Just looking is "dangerous"- I got my first TP from a pet store many moons ago in CA- she was a w/c adult & they kept teasing her so she was very stressed, & I really shouldn't have bought ANYTHING from those jerks! She was a WONDERFUL pet despite her horrible treatment in the pet trade, & from her, I just fell in love with these bug-eyed beauties. Never knew one I didn't love- they have so much personality.

In the book "The Complete Suboc" by Dusty Rhoads- he mentions these are "naturally nice" snakes- probably because they spend a lot of time underground in rocky uninhabited areas- so they have fewer predators they need to be feisty & defensive with. They can move fast when they want to- like to grab prey- but always when I handle them, they tend to move slow & gently- they just come off as curious & sweet- as perfect pets you can relax with. (Don't get me wrong, I like feisty snakes too- all kinds- but I just have a real special spot for these.)

[Mistery510]

What size mouse would you get her?? a Pinky seems like it might be too small. But I dont want to get something too big...

Yeah I am really going to try and get as much info as possible about them. SOMEDAY I may try to breed and I personally don't want to breed siblings lol... Plus they look so much alike.... so..... hmm More investigation lol!!!

Yeah You saw my other post.. I went from no snakes to 4 snakes in a month... o man!!!!!!

Yes Ima go buy that book soon to get more info!! And yeah I'm going to take to heart and not handle them for at least 2 or 3 feeds. I promise!!!

[Bogertophis]

What size mouse would you get her?? a Pinky seems like it might be too small. But I dont want to get something too big...

Yeah I am really going to try and get as much info as possible about them. SOMEDAY I may try to breed and I personally don't want to breed siblings lol... Plus they look so much alike.... so..... hmm More investigation lol!!!

Yeah You saw my other post.. I went from no snakes to 4 snakes in a month... o man!!!!!!

Yes Ima go buy that book soon to get more info!! And yeah I'm going to take to heart and not handle them for at least 2 or 3 feeds. I promise!!!

Are these snakes eating dead prey (either fresh killed or frozen thawed, f/k or f/t), I hope? A pink mouse is way too small- she can take a small hopper size mouse, or large fuzzy mouse. (If you're wondering what the difference is, fuzzies have eyes closed- still nursing, while hoppers are independently eating & eyes are open. Of course these traits aren't obvious if frozen, lol.)

For best results, always ASK the source (the store, in this case) what they've been successfully fed while in their care, & initially do the same. But not pinky mice, that's like nothing. The male, being smaller, I'd assume just a small fuzzy mouse, or large pinky (aka "crew"). But do ask- you don't want to 'surprise' a new snake with prey much bigger than they're used to handling, especially while they're in a whole new place (& more on edge because of that).

Feed them at night, by the way- they're nocturnal snakes. In the wild, they even catch bats! And when young, some take small lizards as first foods. But as pets, they do just fine on mice, & they quickly learn to take dead prey from tongs.

Lots of snake breeders that sell off remaining stock to pet stores will be selling related animals (siblings), but it helps to ask- some do breed multiple pairs & could have unrelated offspring- you just cannot count on these being that, & if you breed siblings, you're much more likely to get defects in the offspring. I would never breed siblings- defective hatchlings are heart-breaking, & anything to minimize that risk is best.

[Mistery510]

I asked but I forget what they were being fed... The store said to wait ten days before feeding any of the new snakes... so I still have like 5 days for these ones... But you saying she looks underfed has me worried...

Yes I will feed right before bed time and right before it gets dark.

I feel bad saying this but its making me question this store I got them from D=...

[Bogertophis]

I asked but I forget what they were being fed... The store said to wait ten days before feeding any of the new snakes... so I still have like 5 days for these ones... But you saying she looks underfed has me worried...

Yes I will feed right before bed time and right before it gets dark.

I feel bad saying this but its making me question this store I got them from D=...

It's common for breeders to feed hatchlings minimally, especially when they end up keeping them beyond the hatchling stage- so if the store recently got these in, there hasn't been time for anything to really change (to put weight on them), & pet stores don't over-feed either, for the same reasons. (The euphemistic term is "maintenance fed"- meaning fed just enough to stay alive.) She looks okay, but her face/head is narrow- whereas when more filled out, TPs have a triangular head- they have cheeks that almost make some observers think they're venomous. (they're not!) That's one reason I'm not any sort of commercial snake breeder- I don't underfeed snakes, & any snakes I ever sold or placed had an extensive feeding record, with no guessing for new owners.

You asked & forgot...you're human...so just call the store & ask them tomorrow what these have been fed. Ask them how long they had them in the store, too, if you think of it. It's nice to know these things. Snakes get exposed to all sorts of pathogens & parasites* while in pet stores, especially stores that don't stick to just captive-bred animals. *Do you know about snake mites? You need to be LOOKING for them- they can kill your snakes when their numbers explode exponentially- even though each one is so tiny as to appear harmless ("how much blood could they suck?") I promise you that they're not harmless, & smaller snakes are at greater risk. Mites also can spread deadly snake diseases

I know how badly you (& we all) can hardly wait to set up our beautiful new snakes in an enriched & appealing home...BUT, the best option is to ASSUME they may have mites, & set up their tanks with white paper towels as substrate, and nothing that mites can hide or lay eggs in. No wood, no mulch, no shavings, no moss, no wood chips, no vines or fake plants...get it? Only hides made of plastic or resin that can be thoroughly cleaned, and a water bowl (glass or plastic). House them this way for at least a month, because just one or two mites missed on the snake (they hide under scales, under the chin, around the eyes, in the nostrils, & on the cloaca) can lay some eggs for a "family reunion" in a month or so.

Snake mites can kill your snake, & they require some fairly stressful treatment (stressful for the snake AND you) to get rid of- they are no fun. You got these snakes from a reptile store- some are much better than others. These snakes might have been treated for mites by the store, or not- I would ask them. I've been in pet stores with lots of mites visible- Look for mites on your snakes, & in their homes, in the water bowl (some may fall off when the snake drinks water) & keep looking. They're about the size of the head of a pin- can be black, or red or brown (the color is from sucking blood), & they'll be moving. I hope your snakes have none, but you want to make sure- you cannot trust them to be mite free. I wish...

Welcome to the real world of snake keeping. Snakes are MUCH easier to keep healthy than to get them healthy once they get sick. For best results, it's best not to feed new snakes right away, not for a week or 2, as they told you at the store. That's because the stress of being handled & in a new home can make your snake barf up it's dinner, & that can be quite harmful for them- rarely, they can even die that, because it's hard for them to do- snakes cannot cough, & if they aspirate into their lung...it may not end well. If ever any of your snakes regurgitate their dinner, they cannot then be fed for at least a couple weeks- so barfing their dinner is a huge set-back & best avoided. That's because if they don't have enough time to replenish their digestive enzymes, they'll barf up again when fed, & for some snakes, it only takes a couple times before they can die of dehydration or the aspiration issue. See?

We really ARE here to try to keep you & your snakes out of trouble... Lots to learn if you haven't been researching ahead of time. Try to avoid impulse buys in the future & research them before you whip out that credit card, okay? We've ALL bought snakes on impulse- trust me- and reptile stores & expos are "dangerous" for most of us. You're among friends here, we understand. Because we've also learned the hard way.

[Mistery510]

aww dang now you got me scared!!!! Yeah I did a lot of research on other snakes, but ended up with these instead.... somewhat of am impulse but i am happy with them and will do my best to make sure they are happy and healthy!!!

So the store said they are a little over a year old and will get the breeders information for me!

ok this weekend I'm going to strip the tanks of everything and do what you said (Basic bedding and only plastic hides and deep clean the tanks).. I hate that all the things i read I never read any of that before and yet it all makes SO Much Sense!!!!

Ill keep and eye out for mites for sure. I know the store puts those anti mite chip things in the tanks for all the snakes and such.

[Bogertophis]

aww dang now you got me scared!!!! Yeah I did a lot of research on other snakes, but ended up with these instead.... somewhat of am impulse but i am happy with them and will do my best to make sure they are happy and healthy!!!

So the store said they are a little over a year old and will get the breeders information for me!

ok this weekend I'm going to strip the tanks of everything and do what you said (Basic bedding and only plastic hides and deep clean the tanks).. I hate that all the things i read I never read any of that before and yet it all makes SO Much Sense!!!!

Ill keep and eye out for mites for sure. I know the store puts those anti mite chip things in the tanks for all the snakes and such.

Not my intention to scare you- we all had much to learn when we started out too, & speaking for myself, there wasn't any forums around to ask back then either.
Anyway, I think you'll have far less trouble with these TPs than with the other pair of snakes you just got. I hope none of them are trouble, actually.

I'll buy that these are yearlings+. Easy enough just to ask for more information, I'm glad you did.

You know, mites are tiny & not so easy to see. I once took in a large ball python that had a countless number of ticks all over her body. These folks had her for about a year & never even knew she had ticks- they thought those were "just scales"... Anyway, the sad thing about mites is when someone knocks themselves out setting up a beautiful tank, & then they have to throw everything away when mites turn up (everything except glass/plastic stuff). With any luck, you won't have mites at all- especially if you know they do preemptively treat for mites in the store. But you always need to be on guard when you get any new snakes, no matter how good the reputation of the seller, because these days, mites are everywhere & they spread easily. Now & then you can transport them yourself, on your clothing if you handled snakes in a store or at an expo- mites get passed around & it only takes one. Some think mites can also hitch a ride to your home in some substrates sold in stores, but that's questionable, not so likely, anyway.