New BP tank advice

[Pilch]

I have a 2.5-ft, adult ball python that is currently housed in a 40-gal tank, 36" x 18" x 16". He seems a little cramped in there, and as a new snake parent, I unfortunately installed the UTH mat incorrectly -- installation instructions were horrible, thought the sensor went under the substrate, over the glass. And there is some heat damage to the lid from a previous owner, got the heating lamp too close. So I'm looking to get a new tank, make it a "Taj Mahal" for him. Is an 85 gal tank (48" x 24" x 18") too big? Looking at a model from Repti-Zoo. There is also an in-between model from Zilla at 48" x 18" x 18". Exo-Terra doesn't appear to make anything that big. I've seen in this forum that Focus-Cubed tops are popular as Exo-Terra tank lid replacements since they reduce airflow to improve humidity. But they don't seem to have anything for Repti-Zoo or Zilla. Maybe I could just cut some plexiglass to fit over the lid of at least one end? I also am going to *correctly* install a new UTH (live and learn) as well as set up a better moist hide for him with sphagnum moss. Currently he just has a couple of log hides along with a stick and his water bowl. One hide in particular is his favorite, but he's kinda outgrown it and doesn't quite fit all the way, pushes it up a little when he's coiled up inside, so I'll try to get him a couple of bigger hides. I already have a Wacool fogging humidifier but wondering if I'd need another one for a tank that large. I'll probably put in some digital thermometers for hot and cold sides, but I also frequently use a laser thermostat to measure surface temps. Any other recommendations?

[Homebody]

So I'm looking to get a new tank, make it a "Taj Mahal" for him. Is an 85 gal tank (48" x 24" x 18") too big? Looking at a model from Repti-Zoo.

That's a nice looking enclosure, but PVC works better for ball pythons. Glass tanks bleed heat and humidity, and lack the privacy that most BPs prefer.

[Bogertophis]

Many issues here:

First, are you sure your snake is a male? They don't get as big as a female BP, & 40 gal. tanks are actually not a bad size for one. I know the larger tanks look great, but BPs are not that active- many get freaked out by too much space & won't eat. BPs are ambush-predators & tend to hide most of the time. Is yours a good eater? How long have you actually had him?

While I much prefer glass tanks, I also don't keep BPs (currently). Most BP-owners here prefer the various plastic/PVC type enclosures for holding heat & humidity better. I'm not saying you can't make a glass tank work for a BP, it's just harder, & the bigger the tank, the harder it gets. Be careful what you wish for. Huge tanks take a lot more substrate, & you'll be committing to a much bigger cleaning job too, so your snake stays healthy.

You can use plexi-glass (or foil, or other things) over 95% of screen tops to minimize air-flow & increase humidity, but the bigger the enclosure, the harder it's going to be to keep it warm enough for a BP. All that air space is HARD to heat, & there's the safety aspect of heating too. I'm sorry that your current tank is a problem, as it will take time not only to order a replacement but time (a week at LEAST) to set it up & run it with no snake inside to make sure it's adequately adjusted (temp & humidity). It takes time for a new set-up (with substrate & furnishings) to warm up & become stable & safe for a new occupant. In a week's time, you may then find you need to change things- possibly even order something else, so it's not a small job, getting this right.

Depending on where you are in terms of climate, the temps. you're now achieving in a large tank may be a LOT harder in winter. Have you gone thru a winter yet with this snake & tank? The overall temp. in your room or house matters greatly- if the room is chilly, you may end up needing to insulate the sides, back & bottom of a glass tank to keep the warm end at 90* & the cool end above 77* at all times.

In any event, rushing to put a snake into a new enclosure can be a disaster- it's best to avoid making changes once the snake moves it. Many find it helpful to set up the new place & let your snake visit periodically for a while for exercise, then return home- taking a few weeks for them to get to feel safe & comfortable before actually moving them into the new place to stay. This will help to minimize their stress, & also give you time to make needed adjustments. In the wild, snakes learn their way around for safety from predators & weather- in captivity, can you imagine how freaky that would feel, to have the home you know suddenly disappear & you end up in a place you don't recognize? They don't understand & may refuse to eat for a while.

***All heat devices need to be controlled by thermostats for safety.*** FYI, BPs usually prefer hides that are on the snug side- only ONE doorway that's not too big, & overall the hide isn't much higher than their curled up body. Many snakes do great with the black hides from Reptile Basics- not glamorous, but snakes like them. They come in many sizes, & while your snake grows into a bigger one, you can make it feel cozier by stuffing a rag or paper towels into part of it, then leave that out as he grows. Snakes should have at least 2 equal hides, one on the warm side & the other on the cool side, so they can properly thermoregulate after meals- otherwise they tend to choose the one that feels the safest, even if it's not warm enough for their digestion. Snakes are funny that way. I'm glad you're planning to add a humid hide too, snakes really love those. (they do dry out though, you have to keep remoistening the moss inside)

[Pilch]

That's a nice looking enclosure, but PVC works better for ball pythons. Glass tanks bleed heat and humidity, and lack the privacy that most BPs prefer.

Thanks for the tip on PVC, I'll look into options. For my current 40-gal glass tank, I do keep it wrapped in fabric for privacy. And maybe that even helps a little with insulation, but that was not my main motivation.

[Pilch]

@Bogertophis,

Am I sure my snake is a male? No. I am going on what the breeder said. And I may be rounding up on his size, the length was an estimate, probably more like between 2 and 2.5 ft.

Yes, he's been eating happily every 2 weeks (medium rat). I've had him for over a year, so we've been through one winter, and he was fasting through it (you actually gave me some advice on that), but once spring came around he perked right up. And yes, managing the temperature over the winter was challenging, but the UTH helped a lot, apart from the fact that I installed it wrong. I'm in the southeast US, so we're starting to cool down, and I want to make sure I get it right this winter, which is why I'm looking at the updated tank now. But I'm not in a rush. And the larger tank consideration just seemed right with him pushing his hides and stuff around, but that's why I asked here. If 40-gal is cozy enough for him, maybe I just need to rearrange some. He hardly ever uses the cold-side hide, which is more like you described, open at one end, but it's still a tree-bark/log thing. He climbs on it a good bit when he's out for a stroll at night, but he's rarely under it. His favorite is a half-log on the warm side, which is open at both ends. Maybe I'll remove the cold side hide, replace it with the favorite log, then offer him the new, humid one on the warm side (unless you recommend it be on the cold side). Who knows, that might become his new favorite. And I recognize that too many changes can be upsetting, so I can stagger all that over days or weeks. Also noted about the extra work that comes from a larger tank. I am not sold on that, it just seemed like the right thing to do, but all your advice makes sense. Still learning.

Part of the motivation for the new tank is fixing the UTH and sensor placement. I suppose I can just keep the current tank, and this weekend when I clean it I can razor off the old one (the adhesive is pretty strong in spots) and replace it. I'd be getting a new one, regardless. I can deal with the heat damage on the lid, it's just some deformed plastic that does not affect the integrity of the tank.

FYI, the UTH is on a thermostat, but the heat bulb (ceramic heat emitter) is not. I'll research retrofit thermostat devices for that. Recommendations appreciated.

As always, thanks for the thorough and thoughtful input.

[Bogertophis]

How tall is the tank he's in? Another way of giving more space to explore is by arranging things to simulate "2 stories"- something to think about- to make better use of the space you have, without all the air space in a larger tank that's hard to control (for temps). BPs aren't big climbers but they do enjoy "furniture" that's not too tall, including tunnels/hides.

You might think about finding or making something that that covers (like a massive hide) 2/3 of the floor- something that's about 4-5" tall (to allow for snake + substrate height), & the 1/3 not covered by this can be for the water & cool hide. The 'giant' hide would be over UTH, helping to contain the warmth & be like a cave for him, & the flat top could be for other furnishings, with the warming light overhead about midway (adjust for temps. on cool side). The overhead warmth will actually reach the top "shelf" better anyway.

I've done something similar in the past for a large boa- I built it & she LOVED it- I put a non-slip carpet mat on top (washable!) for traction, as otherwise the top will be slippery (snakes love substrate that gives traction). She spent time in the "cave", but also a lot of time on top, basking comfortably. You wouldn't have to completely enclose that 2/3 warm side, but do something more like a shelf that has cozy hides underneath, & openings on either side for access. (I hope this makes sense?) Anyway, I worry less about appearances for me, & more about what my snakes really enjoy- which can take some creativity. But this is your show...

Your snake is still pretty small for a tank larger than 40 gal. right now, IMO. I'm glad you've had him for a while & thru one winter now- but just think, if heat was a challenge with this 40 gal. tank how much harder a huge tank will be to keep warm. Just saying. UTH can only do so much. The most important thing is the snake's health, which depends on heat & humidity (& food). Hiding places are for their sense of security (avoiding stress) which also keeps them healthy. You're on the right track- we all made mistakes when we were new keepers.

What you describe as his cool hide (open ended bark tunnel?) doesn't feel secure to him, that's why he doesn't use it much. I recommend these & they're easy to clean, not expensive, from Reptile Basics: (be sure to measure your snake's coiled body, they come in many sizes)
https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box

Bottom line- there's more than one way to do things for snakes- as long as you cover their needs.

[Pilch]

It's a 16" tall tank, not super high, but maybe enough to accomplish what you're describing, I'll have to think about it. I'd almost certainly have to raise the heat lamp since he'd be a lot closer when on top (rely more on the UTH for temp regulation under the hide), which is not a big deal. I like the idea (sounds like a weekend project), but it also seems harder to do surface temperature measurements under the 2/3 hide, more where the UTH is. Maybe I could cut an access hole or a small door on hinges where I could temporarily open up and test temps.

Can the cool hide also be the humid one, or should that be on the warm side? Or does it matter?

[Bogertophis]

It's a 16" tall tank, not super high, but maybe enough to accomplish what you're describing, I'll have to think about it. I'd almost certainly have to raise the heat lamp since he'd be a lot closer when on top (rely more on the UTH for temp regulation under the hide), which is not a big deal. I like the idea (sounds like a weekend project), but it also seems harder to do surface temperature measurements under the 2/3 hide, more where the UTH is. Maybe I could cut an access hole or a small door on hinges where I could temporarily open up and test temps.

Can the cool hide also be the humid one, or should that be on the warm side? Or does it matter?

Humid hides should be on the cool side, or mid-way at most. The heat (UTH esp.) will dry it out fast.

16" high is plenty- you'd want a platform "hide" that's about 4-5" tall- that leaves you about 11-12" above that. (include space for depth of substrate, & remember BPs like low ceilings)

Heat lamp- is it regulated? You could plug it into a lamp dimmer (aka "rheostat")- any hardware store has them- you can buy an extension cord with a dimmer already installed too, if you want. (or run it with a t-stat)

When I had a large boa, I built my own simple "giant hide" for her- out of pre-sanded light weight pine shelving- your basic rectangle with a tile board top. First though, I coated (waterproofed) the wood- you'll want to do that, otherwise wood absorbs moisture, odors, pathogens & mold. I'm not a carpenter, trust me, but I'm long-time friends w/ a hammer & nails. I make my own tank tops too- not the clothing kind! I think snake-keeping is more fun with some creativity & customizing. But like I said, or tried to, you'd want more of a "2nd story" platform, as it would be too big to feel cozy for a BP & you'd want one or more actual hides under it.

As for temps, yes, it can get a little complicated- you'd want this fully set up (furnished) & running for at least a week to fully stabilize before taking temps under hides, etc- then more time to make adjustments.

And for anyone that doesn't know, providing ample hiding places for snakes doesn't mean you'll hardly ever see your pet. Most snakes feel safer & get more active, not less, when they know they have safe places nearby. A "2nd story" for about 2/3 of a tank is a great way to give more room for a snake to move around, rather than just a longer, bigger tank with all the "wasted air space". This "buys time" if you know your pet will out-grow the current arrangement too.

Most of my snakes are rat snakes- they like climbing branches, so taller tanks aren't a waste of space for them at all. Just depends on what species you're keeping.

[Pilch]

Kickstarting this post again. I just measured my snake, and he's around 4.5' long. I didn't expect him to be that long, I was way understimating. It was a rough measurement as I tried to run a cord along him and then measure the cord, but even if I was off by 6", that's still pretty big. I did the math, and he's at least 5 years old, so he's a full adult. So revisiting my tank size question, is 40 gal still a good size, or should I go up?

[Bogertophis]

Kickstarting this post again. I just measured my snake, and he's around 4.5' long. I didn't expect him to be that long, I was way understimating. It was a rough measurement as I tried to run a cord along him and then measure the cord, but even if I was off by 6", that's still pretty big. I did the math, and he's at least 5 years old, so he's a full adult. So revisiting my tank size question, is 40 gal still a good size, or should I go up?

I'd say 40 gal. is the minimum- you might want to go up a size (especially since this might even be a female, that will get larger), but stay away from the 50 gal. tanks that are only a foot wide & where the capacity is mostly height, unless you make a false floor as described- that could work pretty well, but still, BPs are heavy bodied snakes & having tank width of at least 16" is preferable.

So if you do go up in size, the 60 gal. tanks are nicer, @ 4' long x 16" wide & about 16" high. HOWEVER: remember that bigger tanks are also harder to heat, especially if your home/room is chilly, either in winter or because of A/C used in summer.

Keep the personality of your snake in mind too- some do prefer cramped quarters & get stressed in big spacious castles. (And for that type of snake, a split-level floor can help.)

Another thing: if your snake is young (truly about 5 years) he/she will grow their whole life- & BPs can live very long lives- like 30+ years in some cases. So a larger tank might be better for them, but if your snake is actually way up in years already (their growth continues but much slower) a 40 gal. might be just fine. Does that make sense?

Lots to consider- And not to worry, all I ever do is "rough measurements" of my snakes too- no need for "exact".