How should I handle this?

[Animallover3541]

I've mentioned before that I was planning on getting a 48"x20"x20" ABS enclosure from a local manufacturer but things have taken a turn for the worse and I'm not sure how to approach this situation or if I've been handling it correctly thus far...?

I think a little over a month ago I sent a $305 payment via Cash App to the person making the enclosures. I'd heard very good things about him and his business before and I had seen his enclosures in person, so I felt comfortable to pay in full before receiving it as he does not do payment plans or deposits. However, he stopped responding for a couple weeks and when I asked about the day I was supposed to pick up at a show near me he told me last minute that his mom was in the hospital and he felt uncomfortable leaving her. I told him I understood and he said I could pick it up at another show about 2 hours away from me two weeks later, so I scheduled off work for a second time and he one again told me last minute that he is unable to leave his mother and I said that it was okay, but I needed the enclosure within the next week. He said I could pick it up yesterday and meet his wife where they're located (~2 1/2 hours away) and he told me yesterday morning that she got called in to work and he could meet me somewhere about 2 hours away on Sunday to pick it up from him. Basically, since it was out of the 1 week time frame I asked for I said he could deliver it to me or give me a refund. The only issue is his refund policy is 85% purchase price AFTER the enclosure is sold, which I understand is similar to what many manufacturers do but I really need my money back. Haven't heard back yet.

He told me weeks ago that it would be ready to pick up. I was told multiple times that it would be ready to pick up at x date at x time and have taken time off work only to have to push it back again. I don't want to be insensitive because I know he lost his father last year and losing your parents can be hard, but I just wish he had been upfront that he isn't entirely sure when I could get it and offered to find a better solution. I just want transparency in communication.

Am I handling this correctly? Am I being too insensitive?

[Malum Argenteum]

Personally, I would demand 100% refund at this point (actually, I would have reached that point long ago). His refund policy doesn't matter since he has failed to keep up his end of the transaction, which was to provide an enclosure and deliver it to that first show. It really sounds like you're being taken for a ride, and if you aren't then the seller would have offered a full refund some time ago because that's what responsible sellers do when they can't hold up their end of a deal. Having problems in one's life is a perfect reason to take some time off and work through them, but is absolutely not an excuse to jerk people around. You're being treated badly.

You used a non-secure payment method, which is never a safe plan when engaging in a financial transaction that has you paying for goods that you have not yet received, but you may be able to get your funds back through some other part of the transaction chain (if the account is funded by a credit card, for example).

[mistergreen]

Small claims court. Most states you can also get your court fees from him as well.

[Bogertophis]

Small claims court. Most states you can also get your court fees from him as well.

While you can "win" a case in small claims court, the actual collection (of your money) may be another matter. At least, that's how it used to be?

[Bogertophis]

I agree with Malum Argenteum's post- this guy is jerking you around. With so many "excuses", that tells me he's likely to be a scammer. There are all kinds of contractors that promise to build homes, patios, pools, whatever- & sometimes they do, but other times (for reasons known only to them) they decide to keep the money & not do the work promised.

It's a sad lesson to learn about people- that you can't trust everyone, & if some of them think they can get away with cheating you, they will. Not only that, but when you've taken off work to meet up as promised, it appears that you've lost income because of this jerk.

In the future, I hope you'll think twice before paying in full for an unfinished & undelivered product. And by the way, some people are so skilled at making excuses, that their relatives have died many times over... Business is business- these excuses don't fly.

[Animallover3541]

I agree with Malum Argenteum's post- this guy is jerking you around. With so many "excuses", that tells me he's likely to be a scammer. There are all kinds of contractors that promise to build homes, patios, pools, whatever- & sometimes they do, but other times (for reasons known only to them) they decide to keep the money & not do the work promised. It's a sad lesson to learn about people- that you can't trust everyone, & if some of them think they can get away with cheating you, they will. Not only that, but when you've taken off work to meet up as promised, it appears that you've lost income because of this jerk. In the future, I hope you'll think twice before paying in full for an unfinished & undelivered product.

I would almost NEVER pay in full for a product like this except for the fact that I'd heard such great things from local keepers about him and seen his enclosures in person. I ordered from Steve Doss who owns The Reptile Factory and apparently he also used to have another company called Snakefx or something like that. I reached out to Bob from Pro Products to see if it could use the RHP I ordered from him for some of the other enclosures I'm looking at.

I just feel like an idiot. Even if I had reason to trust him, I still shouldn't have been so naive. More than anything this is just embarrassing for me...

[Malum Argenteum]

My own one experience with taking someone to small claims court (a car repair shop) ended up with them paying what I asked for right after they got their summons. It is a fairly simple way to put pressure on someone.

Another -- if a person wanted to play hardball -- would be to find out if the seller is complying with all the state regulations regarding small businesses, such as having a sellers permit and collecting sales tax and reporting income. Many are not (if they're using CashApp, they quite possibly are trying to fly under the radar) and are thus in a very weak position if a scammed purchaser wanted to push things legally.

[Bogertophis]

I would almost NEVER pay in full for a product like this except for the fact that I'd heard such great things from local keepers about him and seen his enclosures in person. I ordered from Steve Doss who owns The Reptile Factory and apparently he also used to have another company called Snakefx or something like that. I reached out to Bob from Pro Products to see if it could use the RHP I ordered from him for some of the other enclosures I'm looking at.

I just feel like an idiot. Even if I had reason to trust him, I still shouldn't have been so naive. More than anything this is just embarrassing for me...

I'm not sure what recourse you have- I'm not familiar with the payment method you used. I think you can file a complaint against a business thru your state attorney general's office- & I sure would. Maybe they'll have some more suggestions for you. Also check into your state's legal aid attorney. I wouldn't let this rest, & I sure wouldn't give up, which is what he's hoping you'll do. Some of these types will make good eventually when they find out you're fighting back- trust me.

[Animallover3541]

I'm not sure what recourse you have- I'm not familiar with the payment method you used. I think you can file a complaint against a business thru your state attorney general's office- & I sure would. Maybe they'll have some more suggestions for you. Also check into your state's legal aid attorney. I wouldn't let this rest, & I sure wouldn't give up, which is what he's hoping you'll do. Some of these types will make good eventually when they find out you're fighting back.

I just asked for a 100% refund by Sunday night and said I may consider pursuing small claims court if this issue is not resolved appropriately. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

EDIT: It appears he has seen the message (I'm using messenger) and he keeps typing and deleting I think...? Idk, guess we'll see...

[Armiyana]

I actually just went through a bit of a runaround with a dealer somewhat near to me that was kind of similar. Thankfully, we had actually gotten both products, a custom incubator and rack. I also had good word of mouth and had seen the products in a local shop that dealt with them and also at a reptile show. Now that I just finished business on these items (and unexpectedly ended up with a few extra snakes as well....) he's talking about getting out of the business because of the personal issues catching up.

I think we all remember how long the crazy lead times got for one of the other big makers at the beginning of the pandemic too....
Sometimes poopy things happen. We don't know it all...

The downside on your end is just the last minute changes. that sounds really fishy to me. If the mother is that unwell, a message earlier in the week when you know you need to skip out on a show as well would be nice. I hope there aren't others waiting to pick up from shows like you.
I would definitely look into using the refund card. Even with the policy, explaining how this isn't an issue of you wanting the product, but them not delivering the product may hopefully get something done. Did he reaffirm the refund was only for the 85% AFTER he sells it? I'm hoping you can get the 100% back but using a payment method like that is difficult. It's part of why I will never accept or pay via paypal friends and family.

Basically my thoughts are an echo of Malums I guess.