Temperature gradient and heat sources: the never-ending headache!

[dkatz4]

Good god, so much conflicting information: depending on which source I go by, my enclosure conditions range from ideal snake paradise to Cambodian prison camp (Cambodia's tropical climate not withstanding). So let me put it to you, my friendly BP.net experts, my Cen American BC (male, 2 yeas old, 34 inches long, unknown weight but excellent body shape) is in a sterilite tub on its side (so top lid becomes front door). Fleece throw over the top, foam weather stripping along the opening (the foam worked like magic resolving my humidity issues) Measures about 33 long, 15 deep, 18 tall (inches). He's in the basement, reletivley cool low to mid 60's, but remarkably consistent, on a shelf about 5 ft off the ground. Premium paper towel bedding (thick 2-ply stuff). Approximately 10x12 Zoo-med UTH on one side, RHP about 12x12 80 watts (I think, I have to double check) attached to dead center of top (inside the enclosure). Both heat sources are on dimmers, UTH also into a thermostat as a failsafe. UTH usually running at 65 to 75 percent power, RHP at 90 to 100. The temp, all measured at ground level and in fahrenheit +/- 1 or 2 degrees.
warm side: 91
center: 80
cool side: 76
humidity: high 60's
Ive seen him all over the cage, lately he's pushed his cool hide into the center which is what got me thinking about temps in the first place. I have 101 crazy ideas for raising the ambient temp inside the tank (heating the basement is not an option) without using light bulbs or ceramic heat bulbs (too awkward, bright, hot, and energy hungry) but before I get all Thomas Edison I'd love t get some feedback from you all.

[dkatz4]

You guys?

TLDR??

ok - the abridged version: cool side 76, hot side 91, middle 81, humidity high 60's: am i killing my snake?

[distaff]

I can't say about the activity, but a t-stat would be much more consistent than a dimmer.
Do you have a second way to check temps, incase your thermometer isn't accurate?

[dkatz4]

I can't say about the activity, but a t-stat would be much more consistent than a dimmer.
Do you have a second way to check temps, incase your thermometer isn't accurate?

temp gun is on order, for the time being I switch my thermometers around (3 of them) to see if the readings match- so far they do within about 1 degree +/-

[Reinz]

Maybe I'm having one of my many blonde moments, but I don't see a problem here. Maybe I missed something.

You are offering heating options and it sounds like your Boa is using them.

Boas tend to be a more active snake than Balls. Don't expect them to be similar to a BP.

One of my Boas will sometimes move a lot. He is in different areas of the cage throughout the day. Other times he camps out in a certain area for a few days at a time.
He will not touch a hide.

My other boa lives in her water bowl toward the center of the cage, even if the bowl is empty. This makes me think that her bowl is her security blanket. She only uses a hide during shed. She absolutely never basks on her hot spot.

Each snake has their own needs and idiosynchrocies. Sounds to me that you are doing a good job.


Elenore, Common BI Female




Punch, Common BI Male

[dkatz4]

Thanks, Reinz. I think the real problem is that I am a bit of a worry wart, some guidelines I read say that a gradient from mid/high 70s to low 90s is perfect others say lowest temp should be in the low 80s and the high above 95. The only consistent thing that I read is that attemp only consistent thing i've read is that excessively low temperatures we need to any number of maladies🤒
Punch and Eleanor's seemingly random behavior definitely makes me feel a lot better, they are beautiful by the way and cool names too (no Judy?).
I saw a great picture you posted of Punch climbing a NordicTrack

[Gio]

There are a number of things that could be happening here but I'l list a few key things to look at.

#1:

You live in Jersey and guess what?? Your snake may be experiencing spring climate change. Boas have been hard wired over the last several million years to respond to environmental changes in the wild. It would make sense that these subtle and not so subtle changes are detected by them in captivity. This is the time of year where day and night time temps, humidity, pressure and daylight hours are all changing. Your BC will most certainly pick up on this even if you perceive everything is the same in their enclosure. My locality Colombian BC is fairly inactive from November until mid April. Once the seasonal changes come, he begins to respond.

#2:

Your boa is a male. If I read correctly, it is a C/A male and they often mature at smaller sizes and younger ages than some other BCI and BCC.
The moving around could be his quest for a female.

#3:

I'll list a few possible reasons here. First, your snake IS being fed properly and it is displaying some hunting behaviors. "Fat and happy" boas don't move much, and "fat and happy" is not what you want. If your doing a good job of feeding and not overfeeding, you'll see increased activity from your animal, because its system is clean and the metabolic cycle is complete. I personally want my BC to become hungry and work for the next meal. This is where a lot of people tend to screw up and feed too soon. You want your BC to be active and moving around for a bit before the next feeding. It is very healthy and natural. Being curled up 24/7 for 365 days out of the year and getting a meal on a set schedule isn't what Mother Nature had in mind.

Another part of this could be your animal is actually using the thermal gradient you are providing. The larger the enclosure, the more options your snake will have to use different climate zones. Your numbers seemed to be adequate.

#4:

Time for a new cage? This is hard to say. I can't see your setup, but I always prefer professional, plastic caging for BCs. They will climb and exhibit a lot of behaviors that you won't see in more restrictive types of caging. Don't get me wrong here as people far more experienced than I am have been, keeping and breeding boas is caging that I'm not interested in using.

Caging may not be an issue at all in your case but I'm including it.

I don't use a huge cage for my BC but I provide 20" of ceiling space and 4 feet of width and 30" of depth.



He uses it all.

Keep and eye on things if you suspect a problem, but Reinz was correct in thinking the temps seemed to be fine.

Feed conservatively, WAIT for all signs of the previous meal to be gone. Some people will feed a boa before it has eliminated its last meal. I disagree with that and feel it is unhealthy for the snake.

Buy a copy of THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR by Vincent Russo and pay attention to anything written by Gus Rentfro on the web or in any text.

At this point, I would not be worried about anything. The first 3 things I listed are probably what you are seeing.

The last thing I will add. Buy a thermostat that allows you to control a night temp drop. A warm day can be followed by cooler night temps. Your snake won't be in eternally hot or cold conditions if you are letting temps dip at night.

Look at species specific literature too.

[JoshSloane]

I completely understand your frustration with conflicting information online. First, I would say that about 50% of reptile information online is just plain wrong and biased, 40% needs to be taken with a grain of salt, and only about 10% is actually factually correct. The reality is that when keeping reptiles we have an enormous challenge to overcome, in that we need to artificially change heat and humidity, not an easy task. As you can imagine, depending on the region of the country lived in, and specific species kept makes a enormous difference in how information regarding reptile care is disseminated. I'm in Colorado, and I constantly battle low humidity, while someone in Texas or other parts of the south might have far too much humidity. Add into this multitude of options for enclosures and it can seem incredibly overwhelming to put together a respectable reptile habitat.

That being said, I wouldnt put too much stock into what others say is the right and wrong temp gradients or heating devices. The fact is that there are literally only two parameters that you need to achieve with most snakes: they must achieve a core body temperature of around 82-83 degrees, and humidity needs to be within the individual species given parameters The actuality of the situation is that snakes do not need a temperature gradient inside their enclosure. We as reptile keepers, limited by the tools we had available for heating and enclosures, used the gradient to essentially hedge our bets, and allow the reptile the opportunity to move between regions of cool and hot, finding that perfect body temperature. With the usual 90/80 hot/cool gradient split, the hot side overshoots the ideal reptile body temperature, acting really as a pool of heat the reptile can soak up, and then move off of when it has had enough time at an elevated temperature. So you can see that with the heat gradient model, if you charted core body temperature vs time, an oscillating wave pattern would appear, with the animal's body temp rising up and above the ideal temperature while the snake is on the heat pad, and then falling down and dipping below ideal while the animal is off the heat pad. To avoid being labeled an iconoclast I will simply say that this model has become the 'tried and proven' method employed by reptile keepers for years, almost based solely off of empirical evidence that the animals continued to eat, defecate, breed etc.

However, I honestly believe that with the advent of PVC cages, RHPs and the like, there is absolutely no need to provide the typical heat tape hot spot. Using one heating device is simpler, safer and more efficient. I personally have been using ambient heat only in my reptile room for many months now, and I feel it has made a much needed positive change. Granted, I understand that in your situation it isnt economical to heat an entire room just for one enclosure. I would recommend ditching the heat tape, keeping the RHP, and shooting for a constant and even 82-84 degrees inside your enclosure. Since i switched to ambient heat only, my snakes seem much happier, alert, active and friendly. Sheds are amazing and humidity stays right where it should. When you are ready to upgrade enclosures, grab an Animal Plastics t8 for your boa. They are perennially on sale for 150$, hold heat and humidity amazing.

Don't let all the shlock written on the internet about reptiles irritate you like it did me for so many years. People especially in the reptile hobby love the herd mentality, they latch onto some dogmatic line of thought, and then lambaste those who dont follow suit.

[dkatz4]

There are a number of things that could be happening here but I'l list a few key things to look at.

#1:

You live in Jersey and guess what?? Your snake may be experiencing spring climate change. Boas have been hard wired over the last several million years to respond to environmental changes in the wild. It would make sense that these subtle and not so subtle changes are detected by them in captivity. This is the time of year where day and night time temps, humidity, pressure and daylight hours are all changing. Your BC will most certainly pick up on this even if you perceive everything is the same in their enclosure. My locality Colombian BC is fairly inactive from November until mid April. Once the seasonal changes come, he begins to respond.

#2:

Your boa is a male. If I read correctly, it is a C/A male and they often mature at smaller sizes and younger ages than some other BCI and BCC.
The moving around could be his quest for a female.

#3:

I'll list a few possible reasons here. First, your snake IS being fed properly and it is displaying some hunting behaviors. "Fat and happy" boas don't move much, and "fat and happy" is not what you want. If your doing a good job of feeding and not overfeeding, you'll see increased activity from your animal, because its system is clean and the metabolic cycle is complete. I personally want my BC to become hungry and work for the next meal. This is where a lot of people tend to screw up and feed too soon. You want your BC to be active and moving around for a bit before the next feeding. It is very healthy and natural. Being curled up 24/7 for 365 days out of the year and getting a meal on a set schedule isn't what Mother Nature had in mind.

Another part of this could be your animal is actually using the thermal gradient you are providing. The larger the enclosure, the more options your snake will have to use different climate zones. Your numbers seemed to be adequate.

#4:

Time for a new cage? This is hard to say. I can't see your setup, but I always prefer professional, plastic caging for BCs. They will climb and exhibit a lot of behaviors that you won't see in more restrictive types of caging. Don't get me wrong here as people far more experienced than I am have been, keeping and breeding boas is caging that I'm not interested in using.

Caging may not be an issue at all in your case but I'm including it.

I don't use a huge cage for my BC but I provide 20" of ceiling space and 4 feet of width and 30" of depth.



He uses it all.

Keep and eye on things if you suspect a problem, but Reinz was correct in thinking the temps seemed to be fine.

Feed conservatively, WAIT for all signs of the previous meal to be gone. Some people will feed a boa before it has eliminated its last meal. I disagree with that and feel it is unhealthy for the snake.

Buy a copy of THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR by Vincent Russo and pay attention to anything written by Gus Rentfro on the web or in any text.

At this point, I would not be worried about anything. The first 3 things I listed are probably what you are seeing.

The last thing I will add. Buy a thermostat that allows you to control a night temp drop. A warm day can be followed by cooler night temps. Your snake won't be in eternally hot or cold conditions if you are letting temps dip at night.

Look at species specific literature too.

Gio, thank you so much for the thorough response let me attempt to reply in kind.
1: Very interesting – I've only had him since early March so it's hard to accurately note patterns of behavior – but I will definitely start logging his activity levels along with his other processes (eating, eliminating, shedding, etc)

2: Hmmm, well there's not much I can really do about that. The family dog used to have a deflated soccerball that he would use for… "courting", I don't suppose there's a snake equivalent for that kind of thing ;P

3: this is another topic of much debate it seems. I am totally of the less is more School of thought in terms of feeding; my only reservation is that at two years old he still has a bit of growing to do before he hits his adult size and while I certainly don't want to power feed him to grow him faster I don't want to stunt him either. I think you and I may have actually had this discussion on one of my previous posts? For the time being I have him on a 14 day feeding schedule on the smallest small rats I can find. I figure when he's three I will really start spacing out the meals leting him poop and get a little hungry. - unless you think that would be really bad! -

4: I think his cage size is fine for now, though not terribly attractive, it's pretty tall for a little guy like him sometimes I worry that there's too much open space and he gets nervous some more interesting furniture might benefit him. One of his hides is very climbable (one of those resin Mayan temples from the pet store) and he has a half decent piece of driftwood, but I'm sure I can improve upon it. I'm sort of waiting to build more impressive enclosure for him once I've really mastered all this husbandry stuff. His current set up though adequate is riddled with the evidence of my learning curve. You're tank looks amazing. I will post a picture of mine a little later when I get the chance

Vince book is going to be my Father's Day present, I think. I got a copy of "the boa constrictor manual" by De Vosjoli. It was OK, but much lighter than I was looking for and, to be honest, is what got me all concerned about temperatures because he prescribes a higher gradient and I am using. Also prescribes a more vigorous feeding schedule, but again, I am inclined to be a bit more conservative.

On a separate note, today I took him out of his tank after his post-meal 72 hour waiting period (Always the longest three days) and for the first time he actually slithered out to greet me and moved right into my hands. Usually I sort of have to chase him across the tank a little bit and let him settle in my hands, but today I dare say he had actually missed me or whatever the snake version of that feeling is.

[dkatz4]

I completely understand your frustration with conflicting information online. First, I would say that about 50% of reptile information online is just plain wrong and biased, 40% needs to be taken with a grain of salt, and only about 10% is actually factually correct. The reality is that when keeping reptiles we have an enormous challenge to overcome, in that we need to artificially change heat and humidity, not an easy task. As you can imagine, depending on the region of the country lived in, and specific species kept makes a enormous difference in how information regarding reptile care is disseminated. I'm in Colorado, and I constantly battle low humidity, while someone in Texas or other parts of the south might have far too much humidity. Add into this multitude of options for enclosures and it can seem incredibly overwhelming to put together a respectable reptile habitat.

That being said, I wouldnt put too much stock into what others say is the right and wrong temp gradients or heating devices. The fact is that there are literally only two parameters that you need to achieve with most snakes: they must achieve a core body temperature of around 82-83 degrees, and humidity needs to be within the individual species given parameters The actuality of the situation is that snakes do not need a temperature gradient inside their enclosure. We as reptile keepers, limited by the tools we had available for heating and enclosures, used the gradient to essentially hedge our bets, and allow the reptile the opportunity to move between regions of cool and hot, finding that perfect body temperature. With the usual 90/80 hot/cool gradient split, the hot side overshoots the ideal reptile body temperature, acting really as a pool of heat the reptile can soak up, and then move off of when it has had enough time at an elevated temperature. So you can see that with the heat gradient model, if you charted core body temperature vs time, an oscillating wave pattern would appear, with the animal's body temp rising up and above the ideal temperature while the snake is on the heat pad, and then falling down and dipping below ideal while the animal is off the heat pad. To avoid being labeled an iconoclast I will simply say that this model has become the 'tried and proven' method employed by reptile keepers for years, almost based solely off of empirical evidence that the animals continued to eat, defecate, breed etc.

However, I honestly believe that with the advent of PVC cages, RHPs and the like, there is absolutely no need to provide the typical heat tape hot spot. Using one heating device is simpler, safer and more efficient. I personally have been using ambient heat only in my reptile room for many months now, and I feel it has made a much needed positive change. Granted, I understand that in your situation it isnt economical to heat an entire room just for one enclosure. I would recommend ditching the heat tape, keeping the RHP, and shooting for a constant and even 82-84 degrees inside your enclosure. Since i switched to ambient heat only, my snakes seem much happier, alert, active and friendly. Sheds are amazing and humidity stays right where it should. When you are ready to upgrade enclosures, grab an Animal Plastics t8 for your boa. They are perennially on sale for 150$, hold heat and humidity amazing.

Don't let all the shlock written on the internet about reptiles irritate you like it did me for so many years. People especially in the reptile hobby love the herd mentality, they latch onto some dogmatic line of thought, and then lambaste those who dont follow suit.

that is a super interesting notion, although i'd be a little scared to try it, "hedging bets" is a very good way to put it. Let me ask you about RHP's, i have a 40 watt (in my OP i said 80, but its 40) and it heats the surface 14 inches below it to about 82.5 F, which is great, but it's "footprint" is rather small. That is to say there is a very definitive line where the heat stops and beyond it the temp drops about 6 or 7 degrees. Would a more powerful one cast wider, or would it simply be able to get the same size area hotter?
i just checked out the T8, great price for great floor space, but the height (12") seems a bit short, especially with a RHP a few inches thick on the ceiling. what do you think?