Panda pied

[PeterPieBaldPython]

you need to know that have a shot 100 % shot at a panda pied doesn t mean you will get a single viable panda pied.

meaning breeding panda pied to panda pied will still result in a lot of kinked babies... that why this morph is so rare: many people not showing their none viable panda pied to keep the business going....

same for the super black pastel superstripe... never seen but many people are onto like me.... i guess the odds are really low to get a viable one that why MArk haas still didn t show any....

I haven't heard of kinking issues, but there are known facial deformities in the "super" black pastel and "super" cinnamon lines - there are healthy panda pieds and healthy super black pastels (I have one), so it seems like 'black pastel' itself is not causing the deformities, but rather there is some other mutation somewhere genetically nearby 'black pastel' that can cause big problems (snakes that are so unhealthy they have to be euthanized or never make it out of the egg). This type of drag along mutation happens a lot in domesticated animals (think about major health issues in breeds of dogs - obviously we didn't *mean* to breed in hip dysplasia, deafness, or cancer, but a 'bad gene' came along for the ride because it was neighboring really good genes like 'kindness' or preferred 'coat color')

I would be careful about which 'line' of black pastel you pick up because of these issues, especially if you're starting with a pied and a black pastel (you will invest a lot of time, money and luck in the project - best to start with solid genetics).

I think it'll be great to see more of these guys, but the odds are tricky (just like with clown pieds, desert ghost pieds, etc) - any time you need a double recessive or double super, you'll hit a bottleneck of 1/16 :

if you get pied x black pastel to start, you get lucky and get 1.1 black pastel (1/2 chance) het pieds (guaranteed) for babies... you wait 2 years for your female to be ready...

THEN you need to hit the genetic lottery:
a black pastel from mom (chances are 1/2) x black pastel from dad (1/2) = 1/4 chance of super black pastel
pied from mom (1/2) and pied from dad (1/2) = 1/4 chance of pied
1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16 chance of super black pastel pied == panda

This bottleneck considerably slows down the number of successful morphs you see hit the market. If someone gets lucky enough to breed one, chances are that animal is a holdback for at least a few more years!
Good luck!

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Kinked pandas? I haven't heard that yet. Can you point me in the right direction to find out more?

Gale

Super Black Pastel and Super Black Pastel combos suffer from duck bill and kinking issues, not all but it is an issue, which explain why there are not many super black pastel out there compare to other super from other mutation, it also explain why there has not been many Panda since the first one.

Some breeders will not work with Super Black Pastel or Super Cinnies for that reason.

[roxiewright]

I haven't heard of kinking issues, but there are known facial deformities in the "super" black pastel and "super" cinnamon lines - there are healthy panda pieds and healthy super black pastels (I have one), so it seems like 'black pastel' itself is not causing the deformities, but rather there is some other mutation somewhere genetically nearby 'black pastel' that can cause big problems (snakes that are so unhealthy they have to be euthanized or never make it out of the egg). This type of drag along mutation happens a lot in domesticated animals (think about major health issues in breeds of dogs - obviously we didn't *mean* to breed in hip dysplasia, deafness, or cancer, but a 'bad gene' came along for the ride because it was neighboring really good genes like 'kindness' or preferred 'coat color')

I would be careful about which 'line' of black pastel you pick up because of these issues, especially if you're starting with a pied and a black pastel (you will invest a lot of time, money and luck in the project - best to start with solid genetics).

I think it'll be great to see more of these guys, but the odds are tricky (just like with clown pieds, desert ghost pieds, etc) - any time you need a double recessive or double super, you'll hit a bottleneck of 1/16 :

if you get pied x black pastel to start, you get lucky and get 1.1 black pastel (1/2 chance) het pieds (guaranteed) for babies... you wait 2 years for your female to be ready...

THEN you need to hit the genetic lottery:
a black pastel from mom (chances are 1/2) x black pastel from dad (1/2) = 1/4 chance of super black pastel
pied from mom (1/2) and pied from dad (1/2) = 1/4 chance of pied
1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16 chance of super black pastel pied == panda

This bottleneck considerably slows down the number of successful morphs you see hit the market. If someone gets lucky enough to breed one, chances are that animal is a holdback for at least a few more years!
Good luck!

This was extremely helpful thank you so much!

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