Breeders: A proposal for a weight gain/growth in length survey.

I've been curious to see how my mojo female compares to other snakes but, since there's such a variety in length and weights at a given age, no real numbers are available as a benchmark.

What I propose is a survey to accumulate some data with regards to this aspect of the ball python. I would tabulate it all in excel once receiving enough entries.

I would like the following:
A minimum of 300 snake measurements, 150 male and 150 female. This is the minimum I would like, or else the sample size will be too small to give decent results.

The data would be for snakes between the ages of 3 months and 5 years old. Any younger it would throw of the scale of an excel graph.

What I would need:
Your measurements, both weight and length! Grams and inches; conflicting systems of measurement but they're the most commonly used. You need to submit an equal amount of male and female snake measurements. No fewer than 4 per person and no more than 10 per person (2 males and 2 females minimum, 5 males and 5 females maximum). This ensures one breeder doesn't provide too large a portion, in case those snakes are an anomaly. You must also provide me with the exact age of the snake in days. You can select examples from any morph you would like; it would be too much work to consider any genetic difference between size/length of different morphs (if this would even apply, I am not an expert).

You would try to select snakes which seem to be, from your experience, healthy and good examples of where a snake at that age should be. In a perfect collection, all snakes big and small would be accepted. However, power fed snakes and runts will alter the data for a sample of this size. Thus, please use your judgment in selection. I'd have to ask that measurements are limited to those who have a fair collection of BPs. If you only have 4 snakes, 2 males and 2 females for instance, I'd prefer you didn't submit as there's less of a control with the data.

What I will provide:
I'll tabulate all the data in excel and provide 4 charts: Male/Female Weight/Length with age. I'll add a trend to highlight certain convenient ages, such as 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc...

I will make a list of all those who contributed, so they may be recognized. However, in case there is any potential sensitivity, I will not disclose individual information about any measurements.



So, this is what I would propose. It wouldn't be concrete, but should provide some insight and a good estimation. The more measurements, the better. What are peoples' thoughts on this idea? Is it worth our time? :snake:

Edit: to clarify, I would ask you pm your 4 to 10 measurements. You should also try and weigh post-shed, when your snake isn't overdue for a huge bowl movement, not immediately after your snake just ate big meal, etc. Once again, judgment :)

Seriously?
Not to be rude, but you're asking for this information (and quite an effort to attain if I do say so) all to find out if your ball python is a 'normal' size?
How about you flip this to make everyones life easier and provide the essentials of YOUR ball python to US:
How old
How long
Weight
and we'll tell you if your ball python is 'normal'.

I'm fairly sure the OP has the more noteworthy and ambitious goal of providing benchmarks for all ball python owners to compare their own animals to.

It's a good idea.

Unfortunately, I haven't got a clue how you get a length measurement on an animal that prefers to turn itself into a knot when manipulated.

The problem is that the size of an animal of a certain age depends on many factors therefore the results will vary greatly from one individual to another.

How big out of the egg, how fast an hatchling is started, prey type offered, feeding frequency, fast period, strong feeder, picky feeder etc all that comes into play.

Bottom line if the snake is healthy and as a good body weight it really does not matter how big/long.

Here is an example on how greatly things can vary depending on the animal I have 1 year female that is 1000 grams I have a 3 years old female that is 900 grams ;) (Those are are two example I have a few more snakes :rolleyes:)

With all due respect to the OP Winged, this:

Quote:

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"I've been curious to see how my mojo female compares to other snakes"

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What's wrong with that being the thought that spawned the idea? That doesn't make comparing his Mojo to other snakes the only goal of this kind of data collection. That would be ridiculous.

I personally would be curious to see the averages.

It's just about impossible to accurately measure a BP. They are called BALL Pythons for a reason. :D I also agree...there are way too many factors to have this be an accurate reflection of Ball Python Age/Growth.

I like the idea, it's just not very plausible.

I would suggest making the data collection more detailed in some aspects, but simpler in others.

Do away with the length measurement--it's not practical, which is why people sell ball pythons by the gram.

Collect hatch dates and weights on samples of animals from each participant (say, 5 males, 5 females from each breeder). Exclude animals with unknown hatch dates.

If you want to make it even more interesting, collect morph information as well. Wouldn't it be interesting if some morphs turned out to be larger or smaller on average than others?

Wondering how mine rates, in comparison to others, simply spawned the idea. I graduated university and am still looking for a job, thus have some free time on my hands. I've seen many posts asking if their BP and his/her weight is "normal". While this wouldn't provide an end all comparison, it should be a good estimation.

I agree that the length is difficult to obtain; how about if we simply do weights and ignore length? I understand that weight varies between specimens a great deal, which is why I suggested using judgment in selecting examples which you thought best represented the average.

Not sure why you reacted so negatively to this idea, mykee. It would take 15 minutes or less to weigh 10 BPs and I'm sure it's something breeders do periodically, anyways.

We will not consider the length idea.

The morph idea I considered, but getting enough samples of each different type of morph would be very ambitious. Maybe it's something that could be tried if there are enough participants in this.

As for my BP, she's approx. 32-35" in length from what I can tell, using a soft tape measure. 780 grams in weight, though I should have weighed her before she was fed on Monday. She'll be a year old on September 5th.

Another issue you may want to consider is that most breeders do not have an equal number of males and females. For example, I have 2 male mojaves and 12 females . . . .