20 Gallon Tank Setup.....HELP!!!

Thanks for checking this out


I recently purchased a 20 Gallon All-Glass Aquarium at a yard sale for an insanely low price. I am planning on using it to house my ball python, and would like to get it up and running so I can transition him after he sheds (which should be in the next few weeks). However, I am very new at the reptile thing (this is my first snake) and would really appreciate a ton of help on this.

My snake Mycroft is in a 10 Gallon reptile aquarium currently. He has a "log on the half shell" made of some synthetic material and a water dish as interior furnishing. For heating I am using an Under Tank Heater from Exo Terra (their jungle line), and am currently not supplementing the humidity any. I use a recycled pelleted paper product for the bedding.

I would like to upgrade his furnishings, and try to get the environmental settings dialed in a little better in the 20 gallon, since it will be his home for a number of years. What kind of hide should I be using?? Should I be using a UTH, or a heat lamp?? Should I be regulating the humidity or not??
I have tried to ask some of my contacts at the local pet shop (I breed mice there and sell them for the local reptile population) and haven't been able to get satisfactory answers.

I appreciate your help (hopefully I posted this in the right forum), and look forward to hearing from you

Mephi

Start here.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

I'm guessing you do not have a thermostat on the uth?

You can use either a lamp or uth. A uth needs a thermostat to regulate it. You can use either as long as it gives you the correct temps.

The hide needs to be snug to the snake with one door.

Misting with a spray bottle is widely used but we can give you other tips if you have a problem with it stating low. I suggest using cypress mulch to help this too.

As someone who recently switched from glass tanks to an Animal Plastics T8, I strongly recommend you start with the UTH (on a thermostat) on the tank. If the UTH provides the tank with sufficient heat, avoid a heat lamp or CHE, particularly if you live in a dry climate (as I do). The heat lamps and CHEs dry out the tanks quickly. Right now, I've got my new snake in one of the old tanks temporarily and am using just a UTH (on a thermostat) and have covered 95% of the screen lid with plastic wrap and cardboard wrapped in aluminum foil. This is working much better and holding in the humidity than when I used a CHE.

for me, I spray my tank with this giant 60oz pump mister a few times a day, and he just recently had a perfect shed, so that works.
as for heating that all depends, recently one of my lights exploded, so I might be switching to a CHE, I tried a UTh but I found it defective because the part the cord connects to the pad, was bigger than the rubber feet they came with, so I couldn't use it, but they generally have good results if they work.
Are you aiming for a more naturlistic look, or a bare minimum (2 hides, substrate, hard surface for shedding)?
I find that the naturlistic look better to the eyes, and is good for display, but if you don't have a bunch of time to clean, setup, etc. than do a minimalist setup.
I can give you more advice on setup if you specify the style of setup.

Im looking to try and preserve the "natural" look, but am also not too interested in using drastic measures to keep live plants, etc. I also do not want to use moss bedding (ive heard it can harbor mites??)

@KMG–I read the care sheet, but still don't have any actual "advice" to speak of. Most of what was said was in generalities. Since I have NO experience at all with snakes, I would like something a little more concrete....
My UTH doesn't seem to bring the temperature of the tank up hardly any; the cool side of the tank is the only one with a thermometer right now, and it stays at around 75 F. I have the water bowl on the side of the UTH right now, but since I don't have a hygrometer I don't know what the humidity is (I know I need to get one, but didn't want to overwelm my parents with all these different costs...you know the drill)

I want to make sure that this new setup is better; should I be using a UTH??

My bp started out in a 20 gallon aquarium, and I used a UTH successfully. You definitely need to get it on a thermostat though, because they can get really hot and burn your snake. I use a hydrofarm thermostat but there are also more expensive reptile-specific ones. If you only have one thermometer on the cool side, that is not a safe way to be monitoring your temperatures. The UTH will not heat up your entire cage, it pretty much just makes a hot spot right above it. You need to get a thermometer with a probe so that you can put the probe above the UTH to see how hot that particular spot is. The accurite thermometers from Walmart work great for this, and they are not super expensive. You put the probe on the UTH side and the actual thermometer box on the cool side, and it will give you both of your temperatures. They will also tell you the humidity of your tank. When I had my 20 gallon I covered half of the screen lid with a wet wash cloth and that worked pretty well to keep the humidity up, along with misting if needed.

It's also a good idea to have 2 hides for your snake, one on the hot side and one on the cool side so that it can regulate it's temperature as needed.

Thanks @toki

does the probe need to go under the substrate?? And which type of UTH are you using?? Is there a particular brand or something??

Here's a good link to get you started with your tank.

Your thermostat probe (the one that controls the heat source) goes outside the tank, between the bottom of the tank and your heat source, and your thermometer probe goes inside the tank over the heat source. You can really use any kind of UTH you want. I used a ZooMed one on one of my tubs for over a year (regulated with a Herpstat Basic) and an Ultratherm on the other (regulated with a Hydrofarm) for a little over a month, and both work just fine. If you have the money, though, I would go with the Herpstat for a thermostat. They're top-of-the-line. And the Ultratherm for a UTH, it's much more reliable than a ZooMed (or so I've heard :) )

First and foremost please keep in mind a UTH will do nothing to heat the air in the tank. If the room temp is less than 80 degrees you prob need to add a secondary heat source to keep ambient temps up. I use heat lamps on rheostats and a thermostat just for ambient in addition to UTH for hot spot.

Heat lamps are great but will dry out the tank, you can cover the top partially to help. When I had a 20 gal I got a sheet of plastic like they use for fluorescent light covers and drilled holes and suspended lamps above. Worked perfect for heat and humidity was not impacted. There are plenty of alternatives. The goal is to reduce the amount of the top open to the air but still have adequate ventilation.

Also if nothing else make sure to have a thermostat for UTH, despite what the packaging may say this is not optional.

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:welcome:

The kind of thermometers you are using is very important. Only a digital probed thermometer or a temp gun will give you the kind of surface readings you are looking for. So first step is to get those thermometers. You are probably only seeing the ambient air temp of ~75º which isn't too bad.

When you get the probed thermometer, you want to place it under the substrate, right over the glass where the UTH is. This will measure the hottest possible spot the snake can get to. You want to measure this spot because the snake could get under the bedding, and the difference between the top and the bottom can be quite substantial.

Once you get a thermometer on that heat pad you will realize how hot it is. Then you will realize why you need a thermostat. The type of UTH doesn't matter so much. You can probably continue to use the one you already have. I kinda like the zoomed pads although I know some people don't.

For hides, ball pythons prefer the rock cave type hides. This can be elaborate or simple. The half log hides aren't really the best for ball pythons because it doesn't cover them on all sides. Basically, you want a hide where you can't see the snake. Unfortunate for us, but the snakes love it!

So do I need to have a heat lamp to heat the air AND a UTH to provide heat on the substrate?? and how much of the tank should it cover?? I have the 10" by 11" size; is that sufficient for heating the tank??

Also, what is "blacking out the tank"?? Is this putting some kind of background on the back (to help retain the heat/prevent extraneous heat transfer)??

And which type of thermostat works well (as inexpensive as possible)

These aren't necessarily my questions; my mother is convinced that having thermostats and other "fancy" electronic controls are too sophisticated for amateur snake keepers like myself. She says "You're not gonna breed the snake; You're not doing research on him...snakes aren't that finicky."


Sorry, didn't realize @kaorte had posted here...Thanks for clearing up some of this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

So do I need to have a heat lamp to heat the air AND a UTH to provide heat on the substrate?? and how much of the tank should it cover?? I have the 10" by 11" size; is that sufficient for heating the tank??

Also, what is "blacking out the tank"?? Is this putting some kind of background on the back (to help retain the heat/prevent extraneous heat transfer)??

And which type of thermostat works well (as inexpensive as possible)

These aren't necessarily my questions; my mother is convinced that having thermostats and other "fancy" electronic controls are too sophisticated for amateur snake keepers like myself. She says "You're not gonna breed the snake; You're not doing research on him...snakes aren't that finicky."


Sorry, didn't realize @kaorte had posted here...Thanks for clearing up some of this

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Lol @ your mother :P Thermostats aren't fancy at all! And yes, they can be quite finicky if their temps are completely out of whack. If its too hot, they will cook, if its too cold they won't eat.

Pet stores don't really tell you that you need a thermostat, but you really do. Otherwise you have no way of controlling how much heat your snake is exposed to. There have been tests done by users here on the forum that prove an unregulated UTH will exceed 110+º which is very dangerous for your animal to be laying on.


If your ambient room temps are above 75º then you don't need a heat lamp, just the UTH will be fine. The size UTH you have sounds fine. It should just cover less than half of the tank. Basically you just want a spot where the snake can lay to get warmed up, and then another spot where he can go to cool down.

Blacking out the tank just means covering the back and sides with something to not only make the tank feel more enclosed, but also to help retain heat. I like to use foam core board panels. They provide a little bit more insulation then just plain paper. You can find a sheet at any drug store like CVS or walgreens.

The Hydrofarm thermostat that others have mentioned is the cheapest. You can buy it from amazon.com or check with your local plant nurseries, indoor growing stores to see if they carry it. I found one at my local hydroponics store while I was picking up stuff for my plants.

My mother's scared of our local hydroponics shop...it was full of weed heads lol:rolleyes:

Cool; I'll look on amazon to try and get a thermostat and go to Walmart to get an Accurite (do you know what aisle their usually on??)
I'll need to get another hide I think; I only have 1 currently (can't fit more in a 10 gallon).

Where should the water dish go, just in the middle?

I don't remember exactly what aisle the accurites are but it's near the home improvement stuff. And I keep my water bowl in the middle but that is just personal preference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

My mother's scared of our local hydroponics shop...it was full of weed heads lol:rolleyes:

Cool; I'll look on amazon to try and get a thermostat and go to Walmart to get an Accurite (do you know what aisle their usually on??)
I'll need to get another hide I think; I only have 1 currently (can't fit more in a 10 gallon).

Where should the water dish go, just in the middle?

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Haha Yeah I can understand that... but those aren't the people who you should be afraid of :P They are super friendly.

I think the accurites will be somewhere near the outdoor stuff, though I'm not 100% sure.

Yeah you can put the water dish anywhere. If you want to increase humidity, put it partially over the heat pad. But be sure to change the water often as it will make bacteria grow faster.

Not all Walmarts carry the Accurite thermometer. I recommend you check Walmart's website to find a store near you that carries it. That way, you can avoid going from Walmart to Walmart.


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Just to add, Today I tested an unregulated UTH and recorded the temp with a heat gun it read 120 degrees

Just purchased the Acurite from Walmart today (last one they had) and am waiting for my Hydrofarm thermostat to come from Amazon (my hydroponics shop didn't have those anymore).

ill probably start a new thread with pics of my project as I put my 20 gallon together fully; is there anything else I may need??

So Mycroft is going to shed in the next 1-3 days, and then I'm going to move him over into the new tank. I am noticing a problem though, that I need some help with.

first of all, I don't know if its the style UTH I have, but the temperature of the heat mat doesn't seem to go above about 85F. I've see that the warm spot should be around 90F...will those 5 degrees make a difference??

also, because of the temperate nature of our summer this year (never happened like this before) the temperature of the house has been dropping in the evening (low in the tank last night was 65F). That was with damp paper towels over the top and the UTH on. In the winter our house will drop to 50-60 degrees at night (my folks are into energy saving, which I totally agree with).

Am I correct in assuming that I should probably get a heat lamp to supplement the ambient heat?? I so, what type should I get?? I don't trust the label for how much it will heat the tank, and the folks at the pet shop where I get my equipment were the ones that told me you didn't need a thermostat with a he's mat....

Thanks for he continued help (I feel kinda dumb to keep asking these questions). I just really want to make sure that my 20 gallon tank is the best setup possible.

Did you get a thermostat for your heat mat?

Where did you place the probe for the accurite?

Yeah 65 is really chilly. I would get a low wattage red heat lamp and a lamp dimmer so you can adjust it as necessary.

The thermostat arrived a few days ago, but I haven't installed it. Would that actually increase the temperature any? (Isn't the thermostat just for turning down the temperature??)

I have the accurite probe under the substrate under the water dish, which is on the warm side of the tank. I do not have it affixed to the glass yet, as this is still the 10 gallon tank I'm using.

How thick is your layer of substrate? I would take the probe out from under the water dish and just kinda bury it under a thin layer of substrate.

it is also possible that the thermometer you have isn't all that correct.

Got the Acurite 00891....

ill try moving the probe

by "low wattage bulb" what are you referring too (5W, 10W, etc)???
and aren't lamp dimmers usually installed on a wall?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

Got the Acurite 00891....

ill try moving the probe

by "low wattage bulb" what are you referring too (5W, 10W, etc)???
and aren't lamp dimmers usually installed on a wall?

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I haven't bought a bulb for a tank in a looooong time but I'm fairly certain they don't come that low (except for compact fluorescents). I would go with a 60-100w and then you can dim it down if needed.

You can get something called a piggy back dimmer. You plug the lamp directly into the dimmer, and plug the dimmer into the wall. There is a little slider where you can adjust the temp.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Cr...5#.UZ5cZiv72Go

@Kaorte
thanks so much for your help; I think I'll go get that today or after he sheds so he'll be ready for his new tank

The probe from the tstat goes on the OUTSIDE of the tank. It goes between the glass and the UTH. Your tstat needs to be set on whatever temp that is needed to achieve the 90 hot spot on TOP of the substrate(probably around 93-95). You should only have about 1/2"-3/4" deep substrate. Any more than that makes it hard for the heat to get through. Make sure you are measuring the temperature on the TOP of the substrate with the accurite unit or the probe because that's where the animal will be. As for the lamp you will need a 50-75 watt red or blue night time bulb in a ceramic fixture. It needs to be left on 24/7 to keep your ambient air temp around 80. Also it helps to cover the screen mesh completely except for where the heat lamp will sit. This will help to hold heat and humidity. Here's an example, it's covered with insulated bubble wrap. Most people use plexiglass or damp towels. Here's my 10 gallon.

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...psb214d6e1.jpg

I got a 75W heat bulb and light hood as well as a stronger heat pad (it will actually go over the temp I want it at, that way the thermostat will be able to tone it down properly.

new temps are 88, 78, with 77% humidity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

I got a 75W heat bulb and light hood as well as a stronger heat pad (it will actually go over the temp I want it at, that way the thermostat will be able to tone it down properly.

new temps are 88, 78, with 77% humidity.

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Very good! Now get us some pics of your snake and it's home. :D

The humidity is a tough high for my liking, but otherwise, temps look good!

I'm sure now that he has a lamp that humidity will lower after a day or two.