Healing Upper Respiratory Infection With F10 Nebulization?

I was watching snakebytes TV, and check out this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnPfuqaBM&t=2m50s

They said that they nebulize their snakes with F10 veterinary disinfectant.

I have F10, and apparently it is noncorrosive when it's at the proper dilution. In its concentrated form it is corrosive, according to the paperwork I have for it.

What are your thoughts about this treatment? Do you think it would work to clear out a respiratory infection? Do you think it is safe?

I have seen people do this, and it works to some extent. But I would only trust it on a very minor case or as a step to take if I am not able to get to my reptile vet immediately.

Personally, I would get antibiotics from my vet to treat a respiratory infection.

I would agree that taking your python to the vet right away would be a problem-solver, but could this be a good solution for anyone that doesn't have a good exotics vet close by, or maybe a first resort to see if it solves the issue?

Personally, I trust BHB because as a newbie I have gotten so much good info from them.

However, I don't really see how breathing in a disinfectant can be good for your snakes.

I wonder if anyone on here has experience with this method.

What does a disinfectant do but kill bacteria? it might not be the most pleasant thing, but is it any different from antibiotics? F10 is safe to use around animals, and breaks down into harmless compounds so it really shouldn't do any damage. I would give it a shot, but it in no way can replace a good vet.

I've been seeing F10 being mentioned more and more recently. Good luck getting the straight dope...it's just a lot of "it's great" "it sucks" "it works" "it doesn't work" "you can only use it for this" "you can only use it for that" blah, blah, blah...

It's almost like asking "is this a Pastel?"

lol...

I have 2 cases of ri right now my mojave that is pretty bad hes on bytril and f-10 and a normal that isn't so bad is just on f-10. Its been a week for mojave on bytril plus f-10 and i think hes doing ok he still has all the signs of an ri but hes not getting worse. And the normal that is just on f-10 has gotten worse. So im not so sold on just f-10 working just yet but the normal has only been on this treatment for three days now im going to give it four more days to make it a week then bring her to the vet if it doesnt show signs of getting better. Both of them are eating also so i think thats a good sign. I think the product is safe but effective i cant say...

Would I? Nope, not unless it's under my vet's watchful eye and advice. When it gets to the time I'm too cheap or too lax to take my aniamls to the vet when they're sick, as a child should be taken to the doctor when they're ill, I'll give them away.

Do I think it's safe? Mixed feelings here, as my common sense tells me that inhaling a chemical that kills baddies probably isn't going to be good for sensitive lung tissue. There are several versions of F10 - are people making sure they're getting the one that's meant to be nebulized or grabbing and using any ol' one they see? I've also seen several stories online where this treatment has, in fact, KILLED their animals.

I also am of the mind that nebulizing any sort of disinfectant, regardless of its chemical composition, isn't a great idea. if you're just looking for general feedback on the topic, I'm afraid since F10 is so new, all you're hear is an array of opinions. my own is that there is no miracle over-the-counter cure, and a culture should be done in most all cases.

however, if you are trying to treat an actual respiratory infection, take the animal to a vet. also take a look at the sticky from this thread:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=respiratory

I'm a little worried personally of people just going straight to the f10 and not realizing the severity of that particular Ri, or thinking the f10 is a miracle drug. It's not. While I have seen this work for slight cases of Ris. I have also seen folks that didn't bother to get a vets input and went straight for the f10 and their animals got much worse and died.
To me this is the same as someone getting ahold of baytril off of the internet and home treating their snake for an Ri. There is a reason why it's important for people get cultures done when their animal has an Ri. I've noticed more recently that some strains of Ris are more resistant to baytril and other abos.
This is from people and vets just assigning abos. The virus become resistant to these drugs and then we have bigger problems. This will happen with the f10 and then what?
I personally think its dangerous to out and say hey here's how we treat Ris, just use this amazing product. I did watch the video on that btw. While I agree that bhb knows what they are doing and im sure they have enough combined knowledge in that business. Not everyone is bhb. There are some people that SHOULD NOT self diagnose their animals and their are Ris that SHOULD be treated with abos. F10 should be used cautiously.

* I'm not trying to call bhb out all I'm saying is I feel it was a little dangerous for a large breeder to put that out on the web without something saying that a vet is still necessary for the unknowledged person. People take what folks like that say as gold and the word of God, there are people right now that instead of going to the vet are going to be nebulizing for this pop or crackle here that wad of mucus there, and I ask again then what?


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Yeah, I actually don't have a snake with an upper RI at the moment (Thank God :bow:) but I just wanted to get some input from more experienced folk about what did seem like a miracle treatment to me.

I thought it made sense since it could clear out bacteria from their lungs, but I also see the merit in sticking with a vet since it is relatively unresearched.

For the record, this is the F10 product I have, and it is the one I saw in the BHB vid that they use for nebulization:http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/sc.html

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Originally Posted by oskyle1567

I have 2 cases of ri right now my mojave that is pretty bad hes on bytril and f-10 and a normal that isn't so bad is just on f-10. Its been a week for mojave on bytril plus f-10 and i think hes doing ok he still has all the signs of an ri but hes not getting worse. And the normal that is just on f-10 has gotten worse. So im not so sold on just f-10 working just yet but the normal has only been on this treatment for three days now im going to give it four more days to make it a week then bring her to the vet if it doesnt show signs of getting better. Both of them are eating also so i think thats a good sign. I think the product is safe but effective i cant say...

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Thanks for the personal anecdote. I would love it if you kept this thread updated about the treatment. It's nice to hear from someone who is actually doing it.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

Would I? Nope, not unless it's under my vet's watchful eye and advice. When it gets to the time I'm too cheap or too lax to take my aniamls to the vet when they're sick, as a child should be taken to the doctor when they're ill, I'll give them away.

Do I think it's safe? Mixed feelings here, as my common sense tells me that inhaling a chemical that kills baddies probably isn't going to be good for sensitive lung tissue. There are several versions of F10 - are people making sure they're getting the one that's meant to be nebulized or grabbing and using any ol' one they see? I've also seen several stories online where this treatment has, in fact, KILLED their animals.

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Do you have any links to those stories about F10 killing animals? That's crazy, and would totally counteract their claims.

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Originally Posted by sharkrocket

Thanks for the personal anecdote. I would love it if you kept this thread updated about the treatment. It's nice to hear from someone who is actually doing it.

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Will definitely im glad it wasn't what you thought it was.

There is a lot of testing been done on F10 it has passed many EU regulations. I believe it is a great product. There are a lot of different versions only two could get confused for Nebulization the f10 sc and the f10 sc xd the xd would be very bad in the lungs.

I would also not recommend it as a first this will cure ri treatment. That is the job of a culture and vet. There are however a lot of RI cases that are actually not. (my snakes ri went away two days after I changed RH or temps or...) not likely RI in the first place almost certainly in fact. It could be a good pro active treatment while the wait for a vet appointment happens or for super minor maybe RI cases. I would never suggest a full blown case be home medicated unless absolutely necessary (no vet willing to see snakes in the region)

F10 is a great disinfectant in may work in some RI cases and may help abate it but nothing beats a vet with the results of a lung wash culture for ridding RI.

Hi hope you dont mind me jumping in but i have a bearded dragon of which i am currently treating with

http://www.wildworldreptileshop.co.u...liser-f10-kit/

Im on day 2

I live 100 miles from reptile vet and dont drive but i have got an appointment next wednesday the only time they could take me!

So for 1 week only im trying this out hope it doesnt harm him :/

For got to add the link i have posted above is for nebuliser with The F10 you talk of so in the uk this product is already available for the purpose you are discussing

My beardie has just eaten for first time in 5 days after his 2nd day of being nebulised he was previously on baytril 6 weeks ago which never completely cleared it and again on baytril 2 weeks ago which hasnt touched the problem the whole time eating very little now after not touching a thing in 5 days he has eaten a locust an hour after nebulising coincidence or not i dont know only time will tell!

I will be seeing specialist for first time next week no matter what the outcome! :)

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Originally Posted by Fellowdt23

Hi hope you dont mind me jumping in but i have a bearded dragon of which i am currently treating with

http://www.wildworldreptileshop.co.u...liser-f10-kit/

Im on day 2

I live 100 miles from reptile vet and dont drive but i have got an appointment next wednesday the only time they could take me!

So for 1 week only im trying this out hope it doesnt harm him :/

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No I don't believe there is any harm I am also sure it will help. I am just not sure it is a cure by itself either. I am glad to hear of the vet appointment. I just came back from the vet with my beardie.

Hi ,

Can i just ask a question, this Is the first time ive encountered an RI with a beardie and my local vet gave baytril oraly for 10 days 6 weeks ago and again for another 10 days 2 weeks ago which still hasnt touched it

So im seeing specialist next week 100 miles away could someone tell me what the likely treatment would be for example

1 injection?
Different oral med?

Baring in mind i cant travel 100 miles everyday back and forth

Thanks i know it is slightly off topic but help would be appreciated

All I have to say is it worked for me:gj:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

All I have to say is it worked for me:gj:

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Hi nebulising F10 worked for you?

If so what were your snake or lizards symptoms before using
Eg. Runny nose, bubbles from mouth, wheezing , coughing , mouth always open,
Crusty nose or mouth?

And how long did you use treatment? And was it f10 alone that you used?
Also how long before improvement occured?

Sorry so many questions but i think if it worked for you its only fair you share Your experience and tell us how severe or what stage of RI your pet was at!

Thanks

post #13;)

Guess i can give my first update on my normal gal. Shes actually doing better after 4 days no 180 turnaround but she doesn't seem to be getting worse :) I think if you catch it real real early theres a better chance of this method working. I also ordered my supplies from Brian at BHB and he got it to me in less than a week :gj: Good stuff ill let you know how she is in a week of treatments or at that point decide to take her to the doctor. I treat her 40min on full power on the fogger in the morning and sometimes a short 15 min at night. Also keep her quarantine tub hospital clean with big apples disinfectant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fellowdt23

Hi ,

Can i just ask a question, this Is the first time ive encountered an RI with a beardie and my local vet gave baytril oraly for 10 days 6 weeks ago and again for another 10 days 2 weeks ago which still hasnt touched it

So im seeing specialist next week 100 miles away could someone tell me what the likely treatment would be for example

1 injection?
Different oral med?

Baring in mind i cant travel 100 miles everyday back and forth

Thanks i know it is slightly off topic but help would be appreciated

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I have never seen RI in a beardie. I have seen lots of rescue snakes with ri. Oral treatment should be fine. The thing I question is 10 days. Reptiles have slow metabolisms and it usually takes 10 days to start working. I would expect to see 30 days in a snake anyway. Also my vet very very rarely uses baytril anymore as many bacteria are resistant to it and it is only gram negative bacteria. Did the vet do a culture? This is the best way to resolve the best drug to use. Sadly they typically are not as useful after a round on antibiotics.

You might PM skiploader and seek his insight.

oskyle, I'm glad your baby is doing better. I know how stressful it can be to have a snake with an RI. Yay for small steps for the better!

How often do you sterilize the quarantine tub? And could you send me a link to the big apples disinfectant you are referring to? I want to keep some stuff around so I don't have to wait on a shipment if a RI case pops up suddenly.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

There are a lot of different versions only two could get confused for Nebulization the f10 sc and the f10 sc xd the xd would be very bad in the lungs.

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That's a really good point. I'm checking out the xd, and I guess that's because it has detergent in it as well. just to reiterate for anyone looking to try this treatment, nebulize with F10 SC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have never seen RI in a beardie. I have seen lots of rescue snakes with ri. Oral treatment should be fine. The thing I question is 10 days. Reptiles have slow metabolisms and it usually takes 10 days to start working. I would expect to see 30 days in a snake anyway. Also my vet very very rarely uses baytril anymore as many bacteria are resistant to it and it is only gram negative bacteria. Did the vet do a culture? This is the best way to resolve the best drug to use. Sadly they typically are not as useful after a round on antibiotics.

You might PM skiploader and seek his insight.

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Hi heading to specialist next wednesday only time i could get because i live so far away, did my vet do a culture? No as she said she would rather leave it to specialist because baytril never worked, it helped clear the mucus but failed to rid of his cough!

Just wondered if injection was the prefered method from reptile vet?

Day 3 with F10 and Nebuliser

My beardie is showing more interest with food after eating locust yesterday but yet to eat today definatly more interested though
and also he has just basked properly for the first time in 8 weeks with mouth wide open enjoying the bask, since he fell ill 8 weeks ago and during his 2 baytril treatments he has failed to do this

So day 3 with F10 further improvement where baytril failed

:) long may it continue

Day 4 nebuliser

Still very bright bearded dragon he also attempted to eat a couple of adult locusts but missed even though i held them lol

Day 5 10:30 am Before nebulising

He ate 2 adult locusts 1 after the other so if anything the nebuliser is either holding his condition back and making him hungry or he is actualy on the mend bare in mind he hadnt touched food in a long time until day 3 of neb and he also hasnt hidden in tank since i started this i think the infection is still lingering and maybe feel the neb with F10 helps but doesnt cure
Ive 2 more days before the vet

He was seriously down hill before i started this black beard every day but since he had first neb he hasnt had black beard once

Well, good thing you're taking him to the vet. The RI might be really well entrenched in his system by now.

But, yay for him eating! That's a small triumph, that's for sure.

Oh, and what is "black beard?" argh, matey!

That is great news. You might ask your vet about feeding 'critical care' I have been feeding it to my rescue beardie (periodontal disease). It is awesome he was not eating becoming lethargic and the CC got food back in his system. It is an amazing product.

I am sure F10 is helping there is too much evidence to deny it does but I would never suggest just F10 and no vet. Just for others reading.

Needles are a hard case. They get the correct dose directly into the muscles. The problem is you add a great deal of stress. Remember reptiles suffer with stress a lot. The concern is the added stress counters the benefit of the meds.

The F10 system is great I love working with it. I just remove as much solids as I can rinse a few times with water spray a heavy does of the (f10sc)XD and scrub with a brush rinse well and then saturate with the f10sc and wait 20 min and dry it out. I don't do this with enclosures as rinsing is very hard (unless they fit in the sink...) I replace the XD with a steamer and sponge with some f10 hand soap. (we use the f10 hand soap for us before and after handling Qs)

Just to be clear you are very very unlikely to sterilize anything at home sanitize yes disinfect yes. Sterile is NO bacteria virus or fungi. About the only way to sterilize at home is to boil things for 15-30 min rolling the whole time (still not 100% effective pressure is needed). You are not doing home surgery so it is not needed. I know that is not what you intended but if you look for chemical sterilants they are all very toxic for everything (you animals) and should NEVER be used at home. Just for clarity.

Oh critical care...
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/pro...il?object=1631

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/pro...il?object=1609

We have been mixing it 3:1 regular fine and carnivore they need to be purchased from the vet but so far it is great. Our guy has gained 38gm in the last 2 weeks. He has become much perkier in the last 7 days too. Still not eating anything on his own so I give that improvement to the critical care.

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Originally Posted by sharkrocket

Well, good thing you're taking him to the vet. The RI might be really well entrenched in his system by now.

But, yay for him eating! That's a small triumph, that's for sure.

Oh, and what is "black beard?" argh, matey!

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Hi its a bearded dragon i am treating not a snake, and bearded dragons beards turn very black when angry or stressed and not well of which he hasnt done once since treating him with f10

Cant wait for wednesday to come finaly get something proper done for him at the vet

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Oh critical care...
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/pro...il?object=1631

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/pro...il?object=1609

We have been mixing it 3:1 regular fine and carnivore they need to be purchased from the vet but so far it is great. Our guy has gained 38gm in the last 2 weeks. He has become much perkier in the last 7 days too. Still not eating anything on his own so I give that improvement to the critical care.

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I will definatly ask for this product at the vet thanks

Hi

Im still treating respiratory infection in my bearded dragon, as i said before i was self treating with f10 which seemed to increase lizards apetite as he wasnt eating before but i used the f10 just to help as i couldnt get to the vet for a week as im 100 miles away.

Since my vet trip hes been on Amikacin injections im half way through them but doesnt seem to be working so i went back to the vet and told him i had a nebuliser would this be beneficial ( i was just acting dumb of course it would) never told him id previously treated with f10.
Anyway after a discussion with the vet he said i will give you a prediluted solution of this resonably new product on the market and is great in treating RI's in small animals especially when used alongside antibiotic you will never guess he gave me prediluted F10 lol!! Just wish id continued f10 treatment aswell as antibiotic from the start but arleast now i know ive been doing nothing wrong as some idiots say on here!

Just thought id share :)

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Originally Posted by fellowdt23

just wish id continued f10 treatment aswell as antibiotic from the start but arleast now i know ive been doing nothing wrong as some idiots say on here!

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:d;)

I realise that this is an old post but I just wanted to comment for anyone else who may be looking for help. We have just had our jungle python at the vet today and nebulisation with a dilution of F10 is precisely what our vet rrcomm3.

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Originally Posted by nostawk

I realise that this is an old post but I just wanted to comment for anyone else who may be looking for help. We have just had our jungle python at the vet today and nebulisation with a dilution of F10 is precisely what our vet rrcomm3.

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Its worth keeping this going! Great to know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nostawk

I realise that this is an old post but I just wanted to comment for anyone else who may be looking for help. We have just had our jungle python at the vet today and nebulisation with a dilution of F10 is precisely what our vet rrcomm3.

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I've may have mentioned this many times in many threads but I did precisely this many years ago with great success for my Albino Royal who's was poorly with RI.

I seem to recall the F10 was diluted 1:250 with water ....


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