Ball Python Egg Bound

Hi everyone, I'm hoping you guys can give me some advice.

First of all this is our first year to breed our snakes.

March 31st our BP laid 4 eggs. We took them that night. April 1st she had another egg, it was cold and she dropped it while laying over her log in the cage. The next day or 2 she had 2 bad eggs.

We thought she had more eggs in her. She was exhausted but she kept trying to lay more eggs. I took her to the vet, he got one egg out, it was rotten smelling. He took a radiograph and could see 3 more developed eggs in her and 2 more (maybe) bad eggs, (not developed).

The doctor told me she was egg bound, she was very weak and her uterus was very thin and "wore out". He said she looked to be bred out. I was very upset. He said he could do surgery and try to get the remaining eggs out of her but he thought they were attached to her inside and she most likely will not survive the surgery. So, I brought her home to die. :(

He told me BP's will lay eggs even if you never breed her. I have more BP's and they have never laid any eggs when not bred.

MY biggest question is, when BP's seem to be having trouble laying eggs, what should I do other than take her to the vet?

I soaked my BP in warm water and put some KY jelly around but that did not help her. After watching the vet I saw what he did which was use a Q-tip and insert it in her all around the egg and he pushed it right out.

Any advice you can give me is appreciated.

while I don't have any advice, I just wanted to say that I'm very sorry that all this is happening. :(
I wish there was something we could do...


best wishes....
Courtney

Sorry to hear that. I had the same promblem but with a dog of mines. She was old and when she elivered her babies there where two that where stuck in her. We brong her to the vet and the said it was her uterus. It was bad. They operated on her. after the surgery she died. So I can relate to your story very well. I hope you can hatch the remaining eggs and start all over and let her memory live on with her babies.

I would give you the advice of getting another vet. One that actually knows what he is doing.

My exotics vet would probably have given a shot of calcium, as that is what helps muscle contractions. The vet also could have aspirated all of the contents out of the remaining eggs and then just waited for the shells to be expelled(they wouldn't have hurt the snake being empty like that).

My advice to you is to soak your snake is warm water for an hour to loosen her up, and then gently try to massage the eggs out. Call around town for another GOOD vet tomorrow morning and get her seen, at least to aspirate the eggs' contents. Keep her warm and humid(not wet) until then. How is she housed?

I send many good luck vibes to your and your snakey girl!

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I would give you the advice of getting another vet. One that actually knows what he is doing.

My exotics vet would probably have given a shot of calcium, as that is what helps muscle contractions. The vet also could have aspirated all of the contents out of the remaining eggs and then just waited for the shells to be expelled(they wouldn't have hurt the snake being empty like that).

My advice to you is to soak your snake is warm water for an hour to loosen her up, and then gently try to massage the eggs out. Call around town for another GOOD vet tomorrow morning and get her seen, at least to aspirate the eggs' contents. Keep her warm and humid(not wet) until then. How is she housed?

I send many good luck vibes to your and your snakey girl!

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That sounds like pretty good advice but the way he tells the story is similar to what happened to my dog. I know ones a reptile and ones a mammal, But i believe his vet in a way

I know my fair share of info on egg bound corns, but not balls, I don't see to much diffrence seeing as being egg bound is the same as being eggbound.

But i agree with becky! New vet. Maybe DaemoNox will chime in, she had an eggbound cornsnake last year, and she pulled through, and is gravid, and looks a whole lot better this year! So don't give up hope!:D Good luck.

Yeah its always good to get a second opinion.

Well with dogs, it's possible to get them spayed.. Which is what should have been done before she even had a heat cycle. We really don't need anymore dogs/cats in the world..

/rant over

Also, snakes can breed up into their 30's I'm sure. I doubt this snake is that old, as the OP said it's their first breeding season. Also, her vet said that Ball Pythons can lay eggs without ever being with a male, which we all know is untrue. They are certainly not like chickens nor are they like mammals. With mammals, you can give them oxytocin to help the contractions, but in reptiles/snakes, they need a good shot of calcium as their bodies are generally low in content from forming the eggs as well as the neonates. Soaking them also helps get the blood flowing and loosens everything up so the eggs can pass.

is there a way for the vet to check if the female may have problems prior to actually breeding the snakes to prevent this from happening?

by the way sorry about your snake :\

Thank you all. The problem is there are no more reptile vets near me.

We soak her in warm water. She is trying really hard now to get the eggs out. She gets on her limb and struggles.

This is her cage, this is when we took the eggs from her.


http://i5.tinypic.com/43ol5xy.jpg

http://i12.tinypic.com/4dfh5j9.jpg

SatanicIntention, the vet said today he could aspirate the contents but the problem is with her uterus. The egg that's down at her tail now looks all weird, you can poke around and see the egg BUT he says her uterus is in the way.

When you look at her vent, can you see white egg matter or do you see pink tissue?

If you see pink tissue, then unfortunately she may need to be humanely put to sleep(not left at home to slowly pass away..).

If you see white egg, then soak her more and gently massage the egg out. DO NOT do this if you see pink tissue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

When you look at her vent, can you see white egg matter or do you see pink tissue?

If you see pink tissue, then unfortunately she may need to be humanely put to sleep(not left at home to slowly pass away..).

If you see white egg, then soak her more and gently massage the egg out. DO NOT do this if you see pink tissue.

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I see white (egg) behind black, green, and yuck stuff, (looks like fish guts). Sorry, I hate to be gross but that's what it looks like.

How often should I soak her?


Edit to add, I see nothing pink.

Is the egg firm or has it already ruptured? If it has ruptured, she needs to go on an antibiotic regimen so she doesn't get septicemia(internal infection that gets into the blood stream).

Does she have any drainage coming from her vent?

Yes, she has drainage coming from her vent. No egg that we know of has been ruptured.

The egg is firm. I am going to soak her again now and hopefully it will help. The other eggs from the xray are way UP in her, nowhere near her vent.

OK, I am soaking her, she has now got 2 eggs down toward her tail. I see the 3rd one about midway of her body.

Please pray she will be ok. I am going to my regular Vet in the morning and ask him to make some calls for me.

I'd soak her for a good hour in a rubbermaid tub with a top on it. Make the water pretty warm, 85-90 degrees, and put it back in her enclosure. Make sure it's dark so she can relax.

If the eggs haven't ruptured, then gently massage the ones further up in her body, down. If you get any resistance, stop.

I would take her back to the vet and make him aspirate the remaining eggs, as well as put her on an injectable antibiotic regimen. He needs to work with you and not just send the snake home to die...

Thank you very much. I am soaking her now. I am calling my regular vet in the morning and see if he can make some calls. All of you have been very helpful and encouraging to me.

Have a great nite,

Faith

Faith,
Where are you at in Mississippi? I am in Louisiana, and if it is not too far, and you cannot find a vet to aspirate that egg, I can do it for you. Just let me know.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Faith,
Where are you at in Mississippi? I am in Louisiana, and if it is not too far, and you cannot find a vet to aspirate that egg, I can do it for you. Just let me know.

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Tim I didn't even notice that she was from MS. Faith I'm in Brandon MS you can get with me too and I'll see what I can do.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Faith,
Where are you at in Mississippi? I am in Louisiana, and if it is not too far, and you cannot find a vet to aspirate that egg, I can do it for you. Just let me know.

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I am in Eupora, that's near Starkville.

My vet gave me baytril injections today. He gave me a big dose for today and a smaller dose for the next 6 days. He says that is a safe antibiotic.

Your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Faith

I am in Eupora, that's near Starkville.

My vet gave me baytril injections today. He gave me a big dose for today and a smaller dose for the next 6 days. He says that is a safe antibiotic.

Your thoughts?

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Antibiotics will fight any infection that has occurred however what of the eggs? Did he offer any solution for them.

I soaked her for a long time this morning. I was hoping she would use the bathroom but she hasn't yet. She still has a lot of fire in her. One egg is down near the vent, the other one has come down a lot. I can't feel anything else.

I do not have any help this afternoon so I will have to wait until my hubbie gets home to try and get the egg thats closest out. I plan to soak her again in a few minutes.

Anything else I should do?

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Antibiotics will fight any infection that has occurred however what of the eggs? Did he offer any solution for them.

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No, he is actually clueless about snakes but he said he would help me in any other way he could. I believe I can get them out of her but it seems the stool is in my way.

I wouldn't attempt aspirating her your self unless you have done it before.

Call Dr. Lenard Duesie at 1-662-324-0404 he is the former head of exotic vet medicine at MSU he will help you I've call and he knows your problem.

Hope this helps

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Originally Posted by Faith

He told me BP's will lay eggs even if you never breed her. I have more BP's and they have never laid any eggs when not bred.

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i had the same thing happen with one of my female tarantulas.i never bred her but she laid an eggsac(unfertilized eggs) and then she ate the sac to restore her nutrients.sometimes they'll lay eggs for no appearant reason.

sorry to hear what you're going through.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I wouldn't attempt aspirating her your self unless you have done it before. Try and see if some body at the School of Vet Medicine there at MSU can help or can tell you of a local herp vet.

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The Vet I took her to yesterday was employed at Ms State for years and he recently opened his private practice. he is a herp vet. I wasn't impressed with him. He has a great name but to tell me to take her home and let her die was not impressive to me. So, I turned to you guys for help.

I got one egg out of her last night and I believe I can get the others out the same way. I would not attempt to aspirate the egg by myself.

Best of luck, my prayers are with you. I had an egg bound Beardie, it's very sad :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I wouldn't attempt aspirating her your self unless you have done it before.

Call Dr. Lenard Duesie at 1-662-324-0404 he is the former head of exotic vet medicine at MSU he will help you I've call and he knows your problem.

Hope this helps

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He is the vet that I took her to yesterday. :(

He told me she most likely wouldn't make it thru surgery.

I will fight this to the very end, I will not give up. If she dies it will not be because I didn't try and give it my ALL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Faith

He is the vet that I took her to yesterday. :(

He told me she most likely wouldn't make it thru surgery.

I will fight this to the very end, I will not give up. If she dies it will not be because I didn't try and give it my ALL.

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So you were the one he was telling me about..So they are fertile then cause surgery is required. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Thanks FF for all your help. Yes, they are fertile eggs.

Our prayers are with you Faith and with your snake. I'm so very sorry your herp vet hasn't done much more than send a snake home to die slowly and probably quite painfully and expect you to stand by and watch that happen. I hope the soaking, the antibiotics and your determination will see her through. Please keep us up-to-date if you can.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Our prayers are with you Faith and with your snake. I'm so very sorry your herp vet hasn't done much more than send a snake home to die slowly and probably quite painfully and expect you to stand by and watch that happen. I hope the soaking, the antibiotics and your determination will see her through. Please keep us up-to-date if you can.

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I hope Faith doesn't mind me giving an update or the contents of her PM. I called the head of the Exotic Vet Medicine Department at Mississippi State University who now has a private practice. Explained the problem. We were relaying messages between the girl at the desk but, he said that he spoke with her yesterday and that this is something she could handle herself. I proceeded to explain that this is not some thing that she should be asked to handle and that if he could be of any help I would greatly appreciate it. this was the out come per Faiths PM.

Dr Lenard Duzzi called me. He has offered to aspirate the eggs.

He thinks you were my local Vet.

He asked me how she was doing and what all I've done. I told him and honest he seems to not know what he is talking about but he has a wonderful name.

He told me he really thought the eggs were attached to her insides. I told him the eggs have moved down. He is shocked.

He asked me could he call me tomorrow to check on her and I said yes.

He told me he believed I could deliver the eggs because I delivered one last night. I told him she was on antibiotics from my Vet and that was from the advice from you guys on the forum.

So, whatever you said to him shook him up.

He may join this forum now.

Thank you so very much.

Faith


Glad things are working out Faith let me know if I can do any thing else

Thank you FF, it's good to know you guys are so caring. We love our animals and will do anything to help them survive.

I'm going to try real soon to get the egg out that's near her vent. I will keep you informed.

Thank again FF

Faith

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Our prayers are with you Faith and with your snake. I'm so very sorry your herp vet hasn't done much more than send a snake home to die slowly and probably quite painfully and expect you to stand by and watch that happen. I hope the soaking, the antibiotics and your determination will see her through. Please keep us up-to-date if you can.

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Thank you Franky. Please keep praying.

Faith

Faith, you are true to your name :) You are being so brave about all of this, and trying so hard to help your girl survive. My thoughts and prayers are with you--I'm sure if your girl is as determined to survive as you are determined to save her, she'll make it through this just fine.

:hug: Hang in there, hon. And keep us updated on her progress.

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

Faith, you are true to your name :) You are being so brave about all of this, and trying so hard to help your girl survive. My thoughts and prayers are with you--I'm sure if your girl is as determined to survive as you are determined to save her, she'll make it through this just fine.

:hug: Hang in there, hon. And keep us updated on her progress.

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Thank you, I sure need you guys. You guys are amazing. (cry)

Yesssssssssssssssssss, I got the eggs out. :). her vent looks stretched, will that close up? I am so excited!! :)

I soaked her for an hour and took her half way out while I massages the upper egg, it only took a few minutes for it to slide all the way down, within seconds it was out. I put fresh warm water in the soaking tub and have her soaking now.

Thank you all so very much for your help. Is there anything else I need to do or need to know?

When do I try and feed her?

I am so very excited. I pray to God she survives.

Bless you all.

Faith

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Faith

Yesssssssssssssssssss, I got the eggs out. :). her vent looks stretched, will that close up? I am so excited!! :)

I soaked her for an hour and took her half way out while I massages the upper egg, it only took a few minutes for it to slide all the way down, within seconds it was out. I put fresh warm water in the soaking tub and have her soaking now.

Thank you all so very much for your help. Is there anything else I need to do or need to know?

When do I try and feed her?

I am so very excited. I pray to God she survives.

Bless you all.

Faith

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NICE!!! Good luck Faith!! This is what IT is all about. Freaky, You weant Way beyond the call of duty bro!! My hat is off to ya Son!!

Thank you BPMachine. I am so excited. :) I just hope she survives. She is a beautiful snake and out first clutch was a disaster but we made it!!!

BTW-- I am a female :)

My hubbie knows a lot but this was our first ever breed. We both were at a loss as to what to do. We're learning!!!!

What wondeful news Faith! I will preface my suggestions with this...I am a newbie breeder myself, I have never dealt with an eggbound snake...what I will suggest is just my gut instincts and I do hope one of our vet tech members or an experienced breeder will pop in and give you further advice. This is however what I would instinctively do where I faced with your situation.

I would place the female back in her home enclosure first replacing all loose substrate with a few layers of plain white paper towels so you can quickly see if there is continued discharge from the vent and also to keep loose particles from her open vent. I would put her enclosure in the quietest room in my house, keeping the lights low and traffic around her to a bare minimum. If I couldn't move the enclosure for some reason I'd likely cover most of it with a dark sheet to give her the maximum amount of privacy and quiet. I would provide her two hides, clean water and leave her be other than to administer any further meds the vet has suggested. I would keep a close but quiet eye on her. I would not feed her at this point as the act of constriction and digestion might overstress her already likely very tired and shocky system.

I know in a normal egg laying the female is cleaned up and fed fairly soon afterwards but I would be concerned that your female is likely extremely stressed physically and not in condition to eat at this time. I would make her first feeding a smaller than normal one, see how that goes and slowly work her back up to her normal feeding routine once you are certain she's okay. The last thing I would want right now is a regurge.

Please again remember Faith I am not an experienced breeder, a vet or a vet tech. These are just gut reactions and things I would likely do myself when faced with any creature that's had a rough birthing (well laying to be exact) experience.

Thank you very much for the advice Franky. It means a lot to me. You guys have been my angels.

Your welcome hon and feel free to call me Joanna (Franky makes me feel like a guy lol). You deserve a ton of credit for working with your snake and not giving up against what must have been some scary odds. Did the eggs you first got her off of look good? I hope they hatch out for you and that your female bounces back from this experience.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Your welcome hon and feel free to call me Joanna (Franky makes me feel like a guy lol). You deserve a ton of credit for working with your snake and not giving up against what must have been some scary odds. Did the eggs you first got her off of look good? I hope they hatch out for you and that your female bounces back from this experience.

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Joanna, Yes, the first 4 eggs looks great. Time will tell if they survive.

After her bath she is in her bed all warm and cozy. I stapled an old burgundy curtain to cover the glass so it will be nice and dark.

She has a lot of fire in her. She is very active. After her bath I dried her with a towel and held her and rubbed her. She was all over me. She is almost 5ft long and just a loving snake. I pray she keeps that fire and bounces back quickly.

I'm sure we're all praying with you. Please let us know how she does. Oh what is her name by the way?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I'm sure we're all praying with you. Please let us know how she does. Oh what is her name by the way?

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Her name is Big Bertha. :) She's right at 5 ft long and the most gentlest one we have. She loves being held and rubbed. She's a mommy's girl. :D

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Originally Posted by Faith

Yesssssssssssssssssss, I got the eggs out. :). her vent looks stretched, will that close up? I am so excited!! :)

I soaked her for an hour and took her half way out while I massages the upper egg, it only took a few minutes for it to slide all the way down, within seconds it was out. I put fresh warm water in the soaking tub and have her soaking now.

Thank you all so very much for your help. Is there anything else I need to do or need to know?

When do I try and feed her?

I am so very excited. I pray to God she survives.

Bless you all.

Faith

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Oh, Faith! I'm SO glad to hear that your girl got those eggs passed. Now it's just a matter of time and patience before she heals up and is good as new, I'm sure :)

I'm new to BPs, and have NO experience with breeding at all...so I can't really offer advice there... but I'm sure someone more experienced will come along to give their :2cent:

I love happy endings!

Faith,
Sorry I couldn't be more help. Our internet has been down for three days. I was out of contact allday today. I'm glad she passed her last eg. It sounds to me that she will be alright. Just my advice. If you truly believe her to be done with eggs, give her a good bath to wash the smell of eggs off of her. Then clean her enclosure really well and change her bedding. Replace her, and leave her alone for at least a week. After her seven days of relaxation, offer her a small meal. If she does not take the meal, leave her alone for another week, and attempt feeding again. Have patience and she will come around. These snakes are very resilient animals. I believe she will be alright, but she has been through alot, and make take small steps toward a full recovery. Have faith and patience, and I believe she will be alright.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Faith,
Sorry I couldn't be more help. Our internet has been down for three days. I was out of contact allday today. I'm glad she passed her last eg. It sounds to me that she will be alright. Just my advice. If you truly believe her to be done with eggs, give her a good bath to wash the smell of eggs off of her. Then clean her enclosure really well and change her bedding. Replace her, and leave her alone for at least a week. After her seven days of relaxation, offer her a small meal. If she does not take the meal, leave her alone for another week, and attempt feeding again. Have patience and she will come around. These snakes are very resilient animals. I believe she will be alright, but she has been through alot, and make take small steps toward a full recovery. Have faith and patience, and I believe she will be alright.

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Thanks for the advice Tim. The vet called me again today to check on her, he told me to give her a bath twice a day (85 to 90) and put some ky jelly around her vent to keep it moist until it closes completely up. I know all the eggs are out due to the xray.

We took all the aspen bedding out of her cage and are using paper for the time being hoping this will help keep down infections due to her vent being opened a small amount.

If she pulls through this she will be my miracle for 2007. I have cried and cried over her. I could not accept bringing her home to die. I thank the members here at BP.net for all the help and encouragement I've received..

Faith