Help... BP has her right eye is bulging

I soaked my ball last night in water because she was starting to shed and has problems with her eye caps not coming off. Then today I woke up to find her right eye was bulging. It appears to be out about 1/8 of an inch. I looks like there in a little blood behind the tissue on the top. she did not have any problems last night so this happen sometime while she was soaking.

Does anyone know what is wrong with her.

Could you post a pic? It would make it much easier to help if we could see what is going on.

how do i add a picture. I only have an option to add a hyperlink

Hi,

Well the first thing is to get them hosted somewhere online.

You can put them in your gallery here - this tutorial is a bit old but the basic procedure is the same I think.

And here is another one in video form that might also help.

You can also use a site like http://photobucket.com/

They should also have tutorials to help you.

If you still have trouble just ask any member of staff and we will do our best to get you sorted. :gj:


dr del

[IMG]<a href="http://s1071.photobucket.com/albums/u511/aimin4strz/?action=view&amp;current=SAM_2347.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u511/aimin4strz/SAM_2347.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/...z/SAM_2347.jpg[/IMG]

I think you need to call the vet now.

I haven't seen that before. Was it rubbing its head quite a bit after you soaked it? I hope someone has a clue what is going on.

No, she was not rubbing her head. she does not currently appear to have any visual impairment.

Did you Try and remove the stuck eye caps while soaking? I agree a vet should be seen immediately.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

no we did not try to remove them. about a week ago, a reptile convention was in town and we had someone there who had a booth and was selling snakes remove to previous eye caps that were still stuck. she had bin fine ever since until today

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/...z/SAM_2347.jpg[/IMG]

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Huh, thats wierd, never seen that before:confused:If I were to venture a guess I would say that the scale over the eye was removed or it is infected somehow. Hope you get it figured out, Good Luck.

[IMG]http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/...z/SAM_2367.jpg[/IMG]

This is what her eye looks like now after I had her a a tub with about an inch of water. This is also what she first looked like when we took her out.

If I keep her in her normal tank, it looks like her eye start to dry up and some of the bulging goes down but I dnt know if I want her eye to dry out. I live in boise, idaho to repitile vets that are open on a sunday are not an option.

Should I let her eyes dry put while she is in her tank or not? Her humitity is about 45% currently but usually it is around 35%.

Owwww,

Both her eyes are so swollen. :(

Are there any signs of infection or blockages in the top of her mouth?

But that is most definitely in need of a good reptile vet.

Did you add anything to the water or anything when you soaked her?


dr del

I would personally Get the humidity to about 50% where its suppose to be and keep her on paper towels super clean and leave her be. Call a vet FIRST THING IN THE MORNING....

Wow, I haven't seen anything like that as well. Maybe up your humidity, leave her cage completely sterile ( only water bowl with paper towels or newspaper substrate ) and call the vet as soon as you possibly can. Please keep us updated :(

Oh, I'd also suggest to stop soaking her, and just let her be.

Oh my god that poor baby! :tears: If I saw my snakes like that I'd be dishing out the extra money to pay for an emergency vet clinic. Remember, tomorrow is a holiday and I don't see normal vets being open then either. I hope she pulls through alright, looks like a pretty bad infection to me. :tears::tears::tears:

Here are the answers to questions posted:

We did not add anything to the water, just half a log for her to rest on. During the night she did crap in the water.

She is not soaking anymore and has not been for awhile.

We are cleaning out everything in her tank except for her water dish and paper towels for bedding.

As of for good repitile vet... We live in boise, Idaho and have been able to find anyone that will be open before tuesday.

From what I have found, it sounds like she might have a clogged nasolacrimal duct (s). Does anyone know how I would check for this?

Last part I forgot to answer. The fluid that seems to be pushing her eyes out seems to be clear. It is not cloudy or yellow. Last night her eyes were completely normal or at least seemed to be. I do not think she can currently see anything out of either eye.

I'm not a vet, but my advice would be to get some terramycin ointment and start treating with a cotton swab 2 or 3 times a day - it will help with an infection immediately and draining the eyes, then go to a vet first chance. Get the humidity up in the tank to a proper level as well.

If you do soak her again, don't add the log, jut make sure the water isn't too high for her to lift herself out, and if she defecates in the water it needs to be changed immediately - she probably got an infection from it.

Hi,

(answering here in case it helps anyone in the future )

The lacrimal duct thing was why I asked about the roof of her mouth as that is where it drains to.

Soaking should only really be done supervised and 30 minutes is plenty of time for most things.

Here are the best vet results I could find for you.

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/idaho.shtml

And in case that is out of date here is the arav page for the first member;

Deborah L Wiggins, DVM
2504 N. Fry Street
Boise, ID 83704
United States

Methods of Contact

Email: dlwiggins@cableone.net



dr del

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Here are the answers to questions posted:

We did not add anything to the water, just half a log for her to rest on. During the night she did crap in the water.

She is not soaking anymore and has not been for awhile.

We are cleaning out everything in her tank except for her water dish and paper towels for bedding.

As of for good repitile vet... We live in boise, Idaho and have been able to find anyone that will be open before tuesday.

From what I have found, it sounds like she might have a clogged nasolacrimal duct (s). Does anyone know how I would check for this?

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You said she deficated in the water during the night. Did you leave her soaking overnight?

How would I open her mouth the check for clogged ducts without placing to much pressure on her head and causing more problems.

Yes, we did leaving her soaking overnight, about 5 hours. She previously has not shed her eye caps during her last couple of sheds. We had someone at a reptile expo remove these last weekend. He then said the next time she started to shed, we should soak her overnight. We did and she did completely shed and then we have this problem.

Hi,

I would restrain her gently behind the jaw hinge and use something soft like the stem of a cotton bud ( take the cotton off first ) to open her mouth from the front.

But if it seems to be too stressfull or you can see pressure being applied to the eyes I'd honestly leave it for the vet. :worry:


dr del

Use a probe, pen, snake hook to gently insert into her bottom jaw and apply small pressure there to get her to open her mouth. I too am wondering if you left her overnight in the water.

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Yes, we did leaving her soaking overnight, about 5 hours. She previously has not shed her eye caps during her last couple of sheds. We had someone at a reptile expo remove these last weekend. He then said the next time she started to shed, we should soak her overnight. We did and she did completely shed and then we have this problem.

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Soaking should never been longer than 30 mins tops. Eye caps are not that big of an issue, as you can see where messing with then to get them off can lead to. Soaking a snake when it is due to shed is actually more harmful than helpful. The water strips the snake of the essential oils needed to remove the skin. Your humidity is what needs to be fixed here for future sheds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Yes, we did leaving her soaking overnight, about 5 hours. She previously has not shed her eye caps during her last couple of sheds. We had someone at a reptile expo remove these last weekend. He then said the next time she started to shed, we should soak her overnight. We did and she did completely shed and then we have this problem.

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Huh, sounds like bad advice to me. You can easily get off eye caps most of the time by just soaking the snake for 10-15 minutes and then gently wipe the stuck caps with a damp towel. I never try to remove stuck eyecaps invasively unless its a last resort.

Yes, I now agree that was bad advice and hind sight being 20/20, I wish I had not done it!!!

We havent soaked her overnight before. We usually soak her 10 to 20 minutes but did it this time to ensure she lost her eye caps this time.

Now her right eye is bleeding a little and the soonest we can get her in is tomarrow morning.

The guy who owns Texas Reptile Exchange was the one who suggested we soak her overnight.

WE may have some hope. A friend of a friend is a reptile vet in chicago and will be calling us in about 30 minutes.

Vet by phone, gota love it!!!

A herb vet called us and from what we explained and the pictures, he thinks that when her eye caps were removed, her corneas where punctured. Then we we soaked her, water built up and caused this issue.

We have eye antibiotics we are giving her and we will take her in to get the eye cleaned and more antibiotics.

Thank you to evryone that has helped and I will keep everyone updated with how she does.

That is why you should Never ever try and remove eye caps. Oh poor baby.

Btw I know you had no idea and I'm not trying to be mean. I hope this can come as a learning experience and for other that are trying to do this exact thing I hope they see this and understand why not to touch the snakes eyes.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

That is why you should Never ever try and remove eye caps. Oh poor baby.

Btw I know you had no idea and I'm not trying to be mean. I hope this can come as a learning experience and for other that are trying to do this exact thing I hope they see this and understand why not to touch the snakes eyes.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Not that I am trying to be mean, but WE did not attempt to remove her eye caps. We had someone the breeds and sells snakes attempt to remove them for us. We could not just let them stay there forever.

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

A herb vet called us and from what we explained and the pictures, he thinks that when her eye caps were removed, her corneas where punctured. Then we we soaked her, water built up and caused this issue.

We have eye antibiotics we are giving her and we will take her in to get the eye cleaned and more antibiotics.

Thank you to evryone that has helped and I will keep everyone updated with how she does.

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If that is the case, and the living spectacle was punctured, you need a very talented reptile vet. I know that the mob always recommends immediately mucking with these retained caps, but the truth is waiting it out one shed is going to hurt the snake. On the other hand, incorrectly dealing with this situation has some very serious consequences.

I have seen a few of these and they rarely turn out well. That animal is going to need a variety of medications and an almost sterile environment if that is the case.

This is why you should never, ever attempt to remove a damn retained spectacle unless you (1) are sure its retained and (2) know what the hell you are doing. Hint: Reading a care sheet does not qualify you to mess with your snake's eyes. (this is not directed at the OP per se.............)

Every single one of you that offers up home remedies on removing stuck caps needs to check yourself before you post. If you can't see the snake and you don't know how to perform the procedure yourself, refer the poster to a vet and let it go.

If the OP's snake has a punctured cornea or a breached living spectacle, there is a good chance that the OP is going to spend a crap load of money and the animal may still end up permanently blind. The tissue around the eye is very susceptible to infection and once infected, fairly difficult to treat.

The protocol for someone new to this hobby dealing with a retained spectacle should be to leave it for one shed and then if it doesn't resolve, go to a vet.

Period.

To the OP - I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully this turns out to be a lot less serious than damage to the living spectacle or the corneas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Not that I am trying to be mean, but WE did not attempt to remove her eye caps. We had someone the breeds and sells snakes attempt to remove them for us. We could not just let them stay there forever.

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They wouldn't have stayed there forever.. No one should ever attempt to remove to stuck eye caps. Ever! They absolutely will come off on their own with just a bit of the proper guidance. Believe it or not, a member here took their snake to their vet who tried to remove stuck eyecaps and that snake lost an eye. A vet! Even more than one layer of stuck caps will come off on their own with the proper care. I guarantee it. No one should ever let anyone talk them into removing them. It doesn't matter how long they claim to have been dealing with snakes. They are absolutely wrong if they tell you this. Me, Skip, Homegrown, and many other members here can give you the advice needed to help stuck caps come off on their own if you ever need this info.

I very much hope that eye is ok and that the snake does not lose it. Keep us updated.

Sorry for the double post but you know what I think happened? What Skip said.. I believe your snake didn't actually have retained eyecaps at all. The living cap that is under the cap that comes off every shed can and does become dented, wrinkly, creased, and dull looking if the humidity is too low. It will look just like a retained eyecap. From what you said about the bad shed, I bet it's eyes we're prone to looking like this and it was impossible to tell if it was actually a retained "old cap" or just a dry living cap.

The case that I mentioned above, where the vet caused a members snakes eye to be lost was a case like this. The vet actually removed the living cap and exposed the eyeball. The snakes eye did exactly what yours is doing. Then it eventually shriveled up.

It is very easy to remove the required living spectacle. I believe a high percentage of people who think their snake has retained old eye caps are wrong and they are just seeing the required living caps looking bad due to low humidity.

Again I would like to thank everyone that provided any information on what we could do for our snake because she is part of our family.

To end this post, I would like to make a few points very clear.
1. She has not lost her eye caps for the last 3 sheds and she was starting her 4th. We had to have then removed because it was impairing her eye site.

3. This is not our 1st, 2nd or even 3rd reptile. Yes it is our first snake but we have bearded dragons and chameleons. We have a 125 gallon salt water fish tank for many years with fish and many different corals, plus cats and dogs.

4. Our pets are part of our family and we try and take great care of them and do anything we can to ensure their health.

5. We live in Boise, Idaho so we do not have a supply of herb doctors. Some will say then can help but do not specialize in reptile care. Most will not even see a reptile. So when repticon came to town, we went to it. We happened to find someone that had a lot of snakes for sales and was a breeder. He had many great looking snakes of all sizes for sale and after we spoke with him, he offered to help so we let him. We did not just read a care sheet and think we knew everything and attempted to practice kitchen medicine.

6. We DID NOT attempt to do this by ourselves. We had what would be concerted a very experienced person do this. I am repeating this because some seem to be implying we just tried this by the seat of our pants. We did not just jump to this decision. We did a lot of research and tried other less invasive ways to help her lose her eye caps before we had them removed.

7. Finally, if you want to make any example of us to others, don't bother!!! Trying to make an example of someone on the same day it happened makes you a piece of crap! We already feel terrible and are trying to do everything we can to bring her back to health. You might know a lot and saying "I told you so" might make you feel good, but again!!!

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

They wouldn't have stayed there forever.. No one should ever attempt to remove to stuck eye caps. Ever! They absolutely will come off on their own with just a bit of the proper guidance. Believe it or not, a member here took their snake to their vet who tried to remove stuck eyecaps and that snake lost an eye. A vet! Even more than one layer of stuck caps will come off on their own with the proper care. I guarantee it. No one should ever let anyone talk them into removing them. It doesn't matter how long they claim to have been dealing with snakes. They are absolutely wrong if they tell you this. Me, Skip, Homegrown, and many other members here can give you the advice needed to help stuck caps come off on their own if you ever need this info.

I very much hope that eye is ok and that the snake does not lose it. Keep us updated.

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Thank you for the information. I wish I would have know this 8 days ago. I do have a question about what you said. If her living eye caps was removed, would it have taken a week for this issue to develop?

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

7. Finally, if you want to make any example of us to others, don't bother!!! Trying to make an example of someone on the same day it happened makes you a piece of crap! We already feel terrible and are trying to do everything we can to bring her back to health. You might know a lot and saying "I told you so" might make you feel good, but again

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I haven't seen anyone on this thread say anything that was considered disrespectful or rude. People state things on threads like this not to point blame or make you look like the back end of a mule...but to teach others who are new, or have never seen or heard of this before, exactly why things like this happen. Taking it personally, and then lashing out is what makes you look like those things. I realize you're stressed about this whole thing, but this is no way to treat people who have tried to help or have given solid reasons for other new members.

To add a little to the thread, I have removed eye caps when I first started out without knowing the consequences such as this. I realize now it was very dangerous, but luckily there was no harm done. I'm sorry your snake is going through this, I hope she pulls through. If nothing else, I hope it's as painless as possible. Even if she loses her eyes, snakes do very well blind. Gale (angellady?) has a snake that was born blind if I can recall, and she is thriving.

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Again I would like to thank everyone that provided any information on what we could do for our snake because she is part of our family.

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Quote:

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7. Finally, if you want to make any example of us to others, don't bother!!! Trying to make an example of someone on the same day it happened makes you a piece of crap! We already feel terrible and are trying to do everything we can to bring her back to health. You might know a lot and saying "I told you so" might make you feel good, but again!!!

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Those two paragraphs are very conflicting, and the last one was VERY uncalled for and still is even after being edited.


You were given GREAT advices. No one accused YOU of any wrong doing and no one is trying to make an axample out of your situation.

Seems to me that you are a bit too sensitive at least when it comes the forum format, you are misinterpreting what you read and see attacks where there are none and with the attitude you just have shown I wouldn't expect people that posted here to try to help you in the future should you need assistance.

I don't think anyone was trying to make an example of you or be rude to you. It is very hard to tell emotions through text on a forum. Everyone here has simply been trying to help out the best they could. Try not to take it personally. I know you're stressed out because of this and probably feeling like crap over it but is it worth it to say such things as you just did and get infractions??

As for your question.. Yes it can take days for it to progress. Like the pictures you posted showed, the swelling gets worse as time goes on. It will take time before you'll know if those eyes are going to be ok or not. I'm not sure there is much even a reptile vet could do at this point. Maybe you could contact the vet again and explain the scenario we think may have happened other than just a punctured cornea. See what they say because it looks as though the other eye is pretty bad now too.

I'd keep it on clean paper towels, keep the water clean and changed daily to avoid bacteria, and whatever else the vet tells you to do to keep the eyes from drying out or becoming infected.

After that it's just a waiting game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

7. Finally, if you want to make any example of us to others, don't bother!!! Trying to make an example of someone on the same day it happened makes you a piece of crap! We already feel terrible and are trying to do everything we can to bring her back to health. You might know a lot and saying "I told you so" might make you feel good, but again!!!

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I just read the entire thread and I really haven't seen anyone trying to make an example of you or anything like that. I understand that this is very stressful, but the people who posted here are just trying to help and make sure that this doesn't happen again.

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

That is why you should Never ever try and remove eye caps. Oh poor baby.

Btw I know you had no idea and I'm not trying to be mean. I hope this can come as a learning experience and for other that are trying to do this exact thing I hope they see this and understand why not to touch the snakes eyes.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Mabey I am just reading more than what is there, but this seems a lot like "trying to make an example of you or anything like that".

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Mabey I am just reading more than what is there, but this seems a lot like "trying to make an example of you or anything like that".

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I completely disagree, all Homegrownscales was saying is that he hopes something positive (the prevention of this happening to another snake) can come from something so negative (your snake getting injured)

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Btw I know you had no idea and I'm not trying to be mean. I hope this can come as a learning experience

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Mabey I am just reading more than what is there, but this seems a lot like "trying to make an example of you or anything like that".

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That's not making an example out of you if you see it that way than again you are reading something that is not there YOUR rudeness however was hard to miss and left no room for misinterpretation :rolleyes:

Any experience good or bad including YOURS may benefit someone in the future, if people cannot learn from other's experiences what is the point? :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

As for your question.. Yes it can take days for it to progress. Like the pictures you posted showed, the swelling gets worse as time goes on. It will take time before you'll know if those eyes are going to be ok or not. I'm not sure there is much even a reptile vet could do at this point. Maybe you could contact the vet again and explain the scenario we think may have happened other than just a punctured cornea. See what they say because it looks as though the other eye is pretty bad now too.

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The pictures I posted were taken with a hour today when we woke up. Last night we handled her as we normally do and her eyes appeared to be fine. It was 8 days ago we had him "remove er eye caps". I put that in quotes because at this point, I dont know what was done. We have checked her eyes right after he did that and several times during the week and everything seemed fine, including last night. I just dont understand how this happened overnight and got so bad. Yes she was soaking in water, but only part of her body was in water. How can her eyes just being in a very humid enclousure cause this. And if her eyes were injured, why did it take 8 days to start seeing any change?

I really don't know exactly what happened, but it may be that some of the water was absorbed while it was soaking and caused the damage that was done to become visible. The damage may have been there all along just not visible.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

That's not making an example out of you if you see it that way than again you are reading something that is not there YOUR rudeness however was hard to miss and left no room for misinterpretation :rolleyes:

Any experience good or bad including YOURS may benefit someone in the future, if people cannot learn from other's experiences what is the point? :confused:

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I completely agree and if my mistake could stop someone from making the same mistake in the future, then Great, but if you were in my shoes, would you want others to use your mistake or circumstances as an example to other on the same day, while she is getting worse and still unable to find a trusted herb vet?

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Originally Posted by aimin4strz

Mabey I am just reading more than what is there, but this seems a lot like "trying to make an example of you or anything like that".

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Since It was my post you seem to be having issue with. Again.. Like I said in my first post I wasn't trying to be mean or make an example out of you. I've seen so many people get picky over eye caps that I was stating This reason is why you shouldn't ever touch eye caps. I've done it myself when I first got Into snakes. What you thought would be impairing eyesight definately was not in any way impairing the snakes eyesight. I've seen this so many times it's rediculous and just wanted others or new people reading this that are possible even remotely thinking of trying to remove eye caps or even have someone (even VETS) attempt to do it... to rethink it. I wasn't trying to point the finger at you, or make an example out of you. Text in forums is taken so out of context, and I know how easy it is when you feel bad about something to take everything as insult. That was not what I was trying to do.

As for some new information...
It can take a week or even longer for things to build up as an infection..etc. As we know for snakes things don't happen instantly. The super increased humidity could have done it. Sitting in water is never good for any reptile, increasing humidity can be done with just covering the screen, or spraying warm water in the enclosure once more per day.




Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com