Curious Behavior

[Shayne]

Milk snakes are beautiful but super-squirmy & escape artists. They tend to be high-strung, not great to handle even when they grow up. If you're after a pet to just
observe, not handle, they're better for that. It's not like they're biters, most don't have mouths big enough to bite effectively; they're more apt to defend themselves
the way hatchling king snakes do (squirt you with feces ). They do grow out of it though.

Ahh I do remember reading about them being a bit "flighty". As most of us here, I would like to occasionally take them out and handle them. Maybe not a good suit for us. Thanks.

Id go with RBI pvc Hides. Ive seen hundreds of posts by people with decorative hides having problems like this for a decade. Sometimes simple and on point is what is best for these guys/gals.


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That's who I've been looking at. They have some nice, simple setups. Will probably be going with them in the near future. Good news, since I put a crumpled paper towel in his hide he hasn't come out. This should keep him happy until my smaller hides come in.

I agree! I just put part of a gift wrapping cardboard tube in Noodle's cage and she loves it! It's like spending $ for a gift for a child, only to have them prefer to play in the box!

Great analogy. That's exactly what it feels like.

You really can't go wrong with corns. But I'm much more of a Kingsnake fan. I've kept corns in the past but have moved on. But I'll always have a King in the family. My current King, Django is my favorite snake I've ever kept.

The care for corns is pretty much the same as Kings (and milks, the Kings cousin).
They're super easy, inquisitive, stay a very manageable size and are a lot of fun. Just be prepared that they're a LOT quicker than BPs and are great escape artists.

What draws you back to the King? And thanks for the insight.

[Bogertophis]

One general difference between a king snake & a rat/corn snake is that a king is more terrestrial & a burrower, whereas rat/corn snakes use their vision more
because they spend more time above ground & climbing. It's like apples & oranges...they're both good.

But I've known many of each over quite a few years, and some king snakes (not saying all) are more likely to insist that your hand might be edible...remember
that snakes are NOT logical & don't use vision to know what fits, etc. While the strong feeding response (in both king & rat snakes) is fun, I can handle a rat
snake after feeding it without a bite, but wouldn't recommend trying that with a king. To me, the snakes that live above ground mostly & spend time actively
hunting are not only more visually-skilled but seem smarter. (the same as with pine/bull/gopher snakes too)

Remember these are just generalities, & the amount of time you spend handling as well as the individual's genetics will influence how any snake you raise turns
out. One thing about colubrids that's WAY different (I would say "better") compared to BPs is that handling them does not tend to influence their appetite. I
have even taken my 2 large (7') male Florida rat snakes to a kid's "show & tell" at a library where they were handled & touched quite a bit, then I put them in
travel containers & fed them f/t mice for the kids to watch, & even took them out briefly afterwards, all on good behavior. Don't do that with a king or a boa.

BTW, that was the first & ONLY time I ever tried feeding snakes in public, & the interesting thing to me is that these same snakes at home are monsters about
grabbing food & constricting, even though it's always dead prey. But there, because they'd been handled, they reacted quite differently: they hesitated and then
ate "politely"! The unusual circumstances (not at home & being handled a lot prior) apparently made all the difference to them, & I really wanted them to act
naturally, the same as at home (for the kids to see) but they're just too well-behaved, lol... And if you like snakes that are more "polite", I give the highest
scores to Trans Pecos & Bairds rat snakes.

What the heck, get one of each & decide for yourself!

[Shayne]

I agree with Craig...king snakes are another good possibility for you (they are more handleable than milk snakes), and don't forget there's a whole world
of rat snakes (besides corn snakes) too. Also fun are the gopher, bull & pine snakes. You see why we're all snake-addicts around here? So many kinds
to love!

BTW (& just because I'm a bad influence, I'll mention one more)- boas & BPs are not the only things either. You might really enjoy an Australian spotted
python (or one of it's close cousins) for a small (no bigger than a corn snake) true python that feeds EASILY on small f/t mice. These do need a warmer
cage than a corn snake or other colubrid, but they have a lot of personality...mine likes to bask on branches/driftwood (the way my rat snakes do) & she
is very alert at all times.

Something tells me your "list" is getting longer...

Speaking of kings, I caught her looking at some Scarlets on G00gle. She tries to downplay her interest but I'm seeing things a bit differently. lol Man, that Bull looks amazing too. Those suckers get up there in length. Not like a Burmese, of course, but 7-8 ft. would require a substantial cage, I would think?

Thank y'all for all the info. It's much appreciated. It's just nice to come on here as a complete noob and not get "destroyed" for my ignorance.

[Bogertophis]

It really depends on what you want from the animals you keep. Me, I like to interact with them. I love snakes that are watching me back & fun to hold.

I used to keep & breed bull & gopher snakes: they are active & need a good-sized cage...they're diurnal too. Adult size is about 6', very slow growth after
that, & 7-8' would be exceptional for sure. All snakes grow their whole life, but it slows way down. For me, 6' is a nice size, & though it seems huge when
you're new & thinking about a future snake, they grow slowly. Also, a 6' rat or bull snake is MUCH lighter than a 6' boa. Rat snakes have a more slender
build than a bull snake, but either one is nothing like a 6' boa. BTW, there are also some smaller versions of gopher snakes, about 4' I think...I never dealt
with them though.

[MR Snakes]

It really depends on what you want from the animals you keep. Me, I like to interact with them. I love snakes that are watching me back & fun to hold.

I used to keep & breed bull & gopher snakes: they are active & need a good-sized cage...they're diurnal too. Adult size is about 6', very slow growth after
that, & 7-8' would be exceptional for sure. All snakes grow their whole life, but it slows way down. For me, 6' is a nice size, & though it seems huge when
you're new & thinking about a future snake, they grow slowly. Also, a 6' rat or bull snake is MUCH lighter than a 6' boa. Rat snakes have a more slender
build than a bull snake, but either one is nothing like a 6' boa. BTW, there are also some smaller versions of gopher snakes, about 4' I think...I never dealt
with them though.

Is there a difference. I think I read somewhere that they were one and the same?

[Craiga 01453]

What draws you back to the King? And thanks for the insight.

Part of it for me is almost nostalgia. Kings were the snakes that got me into snakes about a hundred years ago. Ok, more like twenty, but you get the point... It was a classic black and white Cal King that I fell in love with and that was my first snake. My current boy is a brown and cream colored classic Cal King. I'm a sucker for the classics I guess

Anyway, I love their size, food response and handleability. They are very easy and firgiving woth husbandry and are absolute garbage disposals whwn it comes to feeding. I often joke that Django would eat a slice of pizza if I dangled in his enclosure, as long as it's meat livers!!! Hahahaha!
They can be nippy when young, but usually outgrow it pretty quickly. Once they have a little size on them they're much more confident and far less defensive. If you've ever gotten a paper cut, a cat scratch or a new sting those all hurt far worse than a bite from an adult King.

Django is about 52" and a little over 800 grams and is in a 4x2x2 enclosure and uses every inch. He's active, alert and ALWAYS eats.

Kings are fun snakes and super easy to keep. After starting with a BP a King would be simple and stress free for you.

[Bogertophis]

Is there a difference. I think I read somewhere that they were one and the same?

Nope, they have different ranges, but are very similar & could interbreed (though I would never do that & don't recommend it...there's no reason to).
Plus, bull snakes get a little bigger. Both are close cousins with pine snakes too, but again, different range. When I lived in So Calif. we had native gopher snakes,
but no bull snakes. The ones (bull snakes) I had came from c/b sources, but my gopher snakes were locals.

[Bogertophis]

The thing is, take your time to research (including all the good questions you've been asking) to be sure of what you want, because most of these snakes
can live to 20 years or more. Try to see & meet some in person if you can. (good luck not falling in love with each one though, haha!)

[MR Snakes]

Planning on attending the show in New Hampshire January 6. My boys are excited for it.



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[Craiga 01453]

The thing is, take your time to research (including all the good questions you've been asking) to be sure of what you want, because most of these snakes
can live to 20 years or more. Try to see & meet some in person if you can. (good luck not falling in love with each one though, haha!)

^^^ copy that ^^^