Switching to peat/coco substrate tips?

[JamesGSixx]

Salutations, friends! So I got a ball python and a red tail boa a month ago. My bp is housed in a wood glass enclosure, while my rtb is in a tub glass enclosure with paper towels as substrate. Their temperatures are spot on 90-95f on the hot side, 70-75f cold side. The humidity in both terrariums are pretty bad though ranging from 45% to 50%, this is when I don't mist. Both of them have humid hides filled with damp sphagnum moss to compensate but the problem is they're spending too much time on those hides instead of going to a regular hot/cold hide. Both snakes were being fed live mice before i got them. I fed live once, when i got them because i couldn't find any frozen rodents in my area. (philippines) then switched to frozen rats. weaned rats for the juvenile RTB and medium rats for the ball python. The BP eats like a champ and hasn't refused a meal ever since but the RTB has been refusing to eat after switching to frozen for about 4 weeks. I reckon it might be the humidity since it get's pretty low.

So I'm planning to change substrates to peat moss or coco fiber instead of paper towels. For the reason being so, I don't have to regularly mist to keep the optimum humidity levels up, and I could take out the big humidity box that's taking up so much space and so it looks better and naturalistic.

However, My main concerns are

• Mold - I keep a bunch of tarantulas and sometimes their substrate which is coco fiber/peat moss, seems to get mold. These don't really affect tarantulas though, so it's no problem for them, not unless it's been sitting there for a very long time. Note that these tarantula enclosures have more ventilation than the snake's tub/terrarium and it's already getting mold so what more with the vents that the snakes have?
• Mites - Again, a common problem I face with my tarantula's enclosures. When the substrate is damp, they usually start showing up, Not an alarming number but just a few that you can notice them. I'm not sure if it's the kind of mites that can be harmful to snakes but they're not harmful to the tarantulas I own. They look like tiny white round slow moving mites I think they might be called "hitchhiker mites".
• Heating - Where do I put the heat mat? should it be at the bottom of the substrate or should it be in the middle?

I also want to know about the maintenance of having those two choices of substrate. What are the do's and don'ts? What problems can I be faced with and how to avoid them? Thank you for taking up time to read this long post. Any advice or comments will be gladly appreciated!

ps I have Isopods and Springtails that I'll be using with the substrate.

[JamesGSixx]

Extra details before i got them from the previous owner and before i housed them in a different enclosure.

Before i got these 2 snakes from the previous owner. they were placed outside of his house. The temps and humidity were probably around 85-90f and 70-80% humidity. (i'm basing this off google temps around my area since i don't actually know what the temps were in the area they were placed at). The red tail boa was placed in a glass terrarium with mesh on the 2 sides and top. The ball python was housed in a black tub. Both had tiny water exo terra dishes, no heatmat, no humid hides and paper bags as substrate. DOH of the RTB is 2018 december. September 2017 for the BP. So i got them around a month ago and i have recently changed their enclosures to glass tub for the RTB and wood glass for BP. both have been staying in their humid boxes for most of the time. Ball python is a crazy eater while the RTB hasn't eaten in 4 weeks. The humidity for the BP is bad 40% at best without misting. When i switched the RTB in his tub the humidity is 60% so i guess that's fine for now. I'll try to feed him again next week

[pretends2bnormal]

For both species 95 is too hot AND 70-75 is too cold. BPs and boas ideally have a minimum temperature of 78-80. 75 being the absolute minimum. And advised against as low temps lead to lower immune response and can result in infections.

Boas especially prefer higher humidity 60% at least all the time, and most BPs do better shedding when kept around 60% instead of 50%.

With cleanup crew, I doubt mold will be a big issue. But if it is an issue, that's a sign that your spot cleaning failed to pick up all of the waste and gave it "food" to grow if it is happening within 1 month or so. In non-bioactive tubs, I've yet to have mold up to 2.5-3 months with eco earth or reptile prime coco fiber products. I'd also bake peat prior to use depending on your source.

The tiny white specks you see in the tarantula cage I would guess are most likely either wood mites from a nursery/hardware store source of the substrate. Since you have springtails, I assume you can tell the difference otherwise that would be my second guess without a picture.

The boa is likely not eating due to being too cold, if I had to guess. Especially if he/she is hanging out on the cold end of the enclosure at those temperatures.


Also, definitely do not put the heat mat INSIDE the enclosure for any reason. They're called "Under Tank Heaters" for a reason... they go under the tank. Thermostat probe typically goes between the heat mat and bottom glass or plastic of the enclosure to measure and regulate the temps.

Keeping one inside the enclosure is a huge electrical risk for most brands are they're not submersible and being submerged in snake pee or spilled water definitely can damage them and maybe even cause an electrical short. Not even counting that a big pee or water bowl puddle would cause the thermostat to read incorrectly and might spike the temperature.

Under the warm hide, put a thinner layer of substrate than the rest or keep a thinner layer of substrate overall so the heat can penetrate better.

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[JamesGSixx]

For both species 95 is too hot AND 70-75 is too cold. BPs and boas ideally have a minimum temperature of 78-80. 75 being the absolute minimum. And advised against as low temps lead to lower immune response and can result in infections.

Boas especially prefer higher humidity 60% at least all the time, and most BPs do better shedding when kept around 60% instead of 50%.

With cleanup crew, I doubt mold will be a big issue. But if it is an issue, that's a sign that your spot cleaning failed to pick up all of the waste and gave it "food" to grow if it is happening within 1 month or so. In non-bioactive tubs, I've yet to have mold up to 2.5-3 months with eco earth or reptile prime coco fiber products. I'd also bake peat prior to use depending on your source.

The tiny white specks you see in the tarantula cage I would guess are most likely either wood mites from a nursery/hardware store source of the substrate. Since you have springtails, I assume you can tell the difference otherwise that would be my second guess without a picture.

The boa is likely not eating due to being too cold, if I had to guess. Especially if he/she is hanging out on the cold end of the enclosure at those temperatures.


Also, definitely do not put the heat mat INSIDE the enclosure for any reason. They're called "Under Tank Heaters" for a reason... they go under the tank. Thermostat probe typically goes between the heat mat and bottom glass or plastic of the enclosure to measure and regulate the temps.

Keeping one inside the enclosure is a huge electrical risk for most brands are they're not submersible and being submerged in snake pee or spilled water definitely can damage them and maybe even cause an electrical short. Not even counting that a big pee or water bowl puddle would cause the thermostat to read incorrectly and might spike the temperature.

Under the warm hide, put a thinner layer of substrate than the rest or keep a thinner layer of substrate overall so the heat can penetrate better.

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Thanks for the quick reply. For the ball python. i placed the heat mat inside the enclosure with a lot of layers of paper towels to make sure it's not too hot that it would burn his scales, and i placed the thermostat in between the top layer and the bottom layer of the paper towels. it measured around 93f - 95f with different thermometers not just the thermostat probe. My reason for keeping it inside the tank is because the bottom part of the wooden enclosure is thick, approximately around 1.5" - 2". i have tried putting it under but it just won't cut it. it would barely go up in temps even in longer periods of time, plus with my room having an airconditiong unit which is on for at least 14 hours a day. I was thinking of putting tiles on top of the heatmat inside the enclosure but figured if i just put in peat moss then it would be an easier process. With the boa, since he's in a tub enclosure i put the heatmat under. also set on 95f but reads 93f. i've changed it since i've read your comment to 90-92f. Thanks!

[pretends2bnormal]

Thanks for the quick reply. For the ball python. i placed the heat mat inside the enclosure with a lot of layers of paper towels to make sure it's not too hot that it would burn his scales, and i placed the thermostat in between the top layer and the bottom layer of the paper towels. it measured around 93f - 95f with different thermometers not just the thermostat probe. My reason for keeping it inside the tank is because the bottom part of the wooden enclosure is thick, approximately around 1.5" - 2". i have tried putting it under but it just won't cut it. it would barely go up in temps even in longer periods of time, plus with my room having an airconditiong unit which is on for at least 14 hours a day. I was thinking of putting tiles on top of the heatmat inside the enclosure but figured if i just put in peat moss then it would be an easier process. With the boa, since he's in a tub enclosure i put the heatmat under. also set on 95f but reads 93f. i've changed it since i've read your comment to 90-92f. Thanks!

For that thick of a wood enclosure, a RHP or CHE with a good protective mesh cage is probably what you'd need to use. I wouldn't trust the moisture damage just sitting under peat or coco fiber not to damage a heat mat, and tiles really won't protect it any from liquids either.

Wood enclosures are a bit difficult like that as I understand (I don't have any myself)... I'd personally probably swap to a tub or even a modified glass tank for that one to stick with the heat mat. Otherwise a RHP mounts to the ceiling and is a very good heat source, and is definitely the one I'd go with if I stuck with the wood enclosure.

I'm sure others will chime in with other suggestions, if they have any.



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[gunkle]

An RHP mounted to the ceiling is the way to go for a wooden cage. A CHE will also work depending on the height of the cage but an RHP is definitely better. Placing a heat mat inside a cage is asking for a short at best and a fire at worst. Your temps are too high and can cause serious burns, you don't want anything that the snake can come into contact with to be any hotter than about 90. Also is the inside of the wood cage sealed against humidity? At the humidity levels required for proper husbandry wood will rot fast. I have built 4 wooden enclosures for various reptile and they can be great low maintenance cages if done properly but the setup is different then a glass tank or plastic tub.


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