BP Been acting different around feeding time?

[Natail]

Hi!

first of all, this is a long post, very sorry i kinda got carried away writing, but i'll put a tl;dr on the bottom too.

My 1 and a half year pastel ball python male has been acting quite different lately when it comes to feeding.
I feed him live in a seperate container and I usually let him slither out gently after he's done eating (I keep trying to convert him to f/t, tips on that would be appreciated too he's kinda picky on that)
His temp., humidity, hides are all the same and nothings changed by the husbandry.
I'm a new time reptile owner, I've had him since march and he's been fine with eating and getting him out.
ANYWAYS.

Few weeks ago my BP has been acting weird.
I got myself his mouse, as I do every week, went into the room and he immediately came out of his hide against the glass of his terrarium. I wanted to take him out to feed into his feeding tub but he acted all 'defensive' or hungry. It was very unusual for him. He was in Strike pose the entire time and kept following my hand with his head, when I moved on the other side of the glass, like he thought I was the food. The mouse was already in the same room but it always is and usually it's no problem.
when I tried to reach in to pick him up from the other side, he swirled around and looked at me very defensively. I took my hand out, wondering what I should do and then he does the weirdest thing i've seen him do.
it looked like he tried to strike the air. There was nothing there, no hand, no mouse nothing and he struck at the air and had his mouth open and his neck stretched out for a good second. It was in the direction of the heat lamp (dw I have a UTH too, it's for the ambient temp getting colder cuz winter)

I got confused and didnt wanna stress him out more by taking him out, so I dangled the mouse from the top opening of the cage in and he struck it and ate it there.

few days after that, he went into shed: I thought that maybe was the reason why he was like that.


and then, after he shed, I went to feed him again, got the mouse and this time he didn't come out to the glass. I got him out no problem but the second I put him into the tub, he stared me down, head lifted and in s pose. he was staring right at my face like he was gonna strike at me and eat me. Even thought that won't be possible for him obviously. I just sat there for a few seconds maybe a minute and then he kinda calmed down and went down into the tub. He's never shown that kind of behaviour before. i got the mouse out, dangled infront of him and he was just staring down my hand that was holdign the mouse instead of the mouse literally in strike reach. (i know I should use tongs to avoid him getting my hand, i misplaced them the time before and couldn't find it anymore)

anyways, he realized the mouse was there, struck, missed once, struck again and got it.
the next feeding went fine, no stare downs no miss no trouble.

going to recently:
I didn't feed him for a week, because I wanted to try nd give him pre-killed. (ive stopped feeding him for a few weeks, a few times before this, to get him to f/t before but he never showed this kind of behaviour)
I euthanized the mouse and when i went to feed him, he came out to the glass again, I opened the other side of the door, cuz I'm afraid that if I open the one he's at, he'd strike me in the face smh.
I dangled the dead mouse in by its tail with the tongs (that by the way were somehow in a different room???) he didn't react to it immediately. The mouse kinda slipped off the tongs (i needa get those scissor tongs) because of bad grip so it kinda just layed in his enclosure. he was strike pose following my hand again, staring at me and when I reach in with the tongs to pick up the mouse again, he struck at the tongs and then he immmediately saw the mouse and struck and coiled it. I gave it a few tugs on the tail just so it seems like it was kinda still alive for him.
now, usually, he'd be coiled up for maybe a minute or so, I don't count the time. BUt this time, he was just coiled up for quite some time. it looked like as if he'd died in that position (obviously not).
after a minute or so from striking, I put a blanket over the cage, i thought maybe he'd be more comfortable (wasnt a problem before tho). i checked in after a few minutes and he was still coiled up so i left him alone a bit more with the blanket over his cage. a few mins later, i come back and he'd started eating the mouse so all was well.

2 days later, today: he's kinda in the open, instead of sleeping over his utc side in a hide like he usually does... he's been laying half in, half out of his hides, staring at the glass. and when I'm nearby he stares at me sometimes. a lot of those times he's not in strike pose but it's weird that he's out of his hides, just laying his head down in the middle of the enclosure at the glass....



His hides haven't been moved, the temp and humidity is the same as it was months ago. 2 sides of his enclosure are darked off (the back side is against a dark wall)...
I handle him every now and then for just a few minutes and not during shed time or withing 48h of feeding.

ARGH this post is so long i'm so sorry..

TLDR:
my 1 1/2 year old male bp has been showing some weird behaviour around feeding time, looking like he's gonna strike me, thinking my hand is food probably. He's only started being weird for a few weeks, before it was never a problem. He feeds live mice in a feeding tub. all husbandry remained the same.

the first time he was acting different, he came out of his hide, to the glass door the second i came into the room, he followed my hand like it was food, I couldn't pick him up and move him to his tub, and he struck at the air under a heat lamp, it was really odd, i've never seen a snake do that. ended up feeding him by dangling the mouse from the top opening.

the second time, i managed to get him out of the enclosure without him acting defensively or so, and put him into his tub but he began to stare me down, like he would strike at my face any moment.
when he calmed down after a bit, i held in the mouse by the tail but he was staring at my hand rather than the mouse. but later got the mouse after he realized it was there.

third time, i havent fed him for a week because I wanted to try and give him pre killed. when I wanted to get him out, but he was out against the glass of the terrarium again, so I just decided to hold in the mouse by the tail with tongs. i accidentally let the mouse slip out of the tongs while holding it so it was kinda just laying there, and he didn't react to it. I tried to pick it up with the tongs again and he suddenly struck at my tongs but then immediately struck at the mouse that was laying on the enclosure floor when he realized it was there....
he then proceeded to have it coiled for WAY longer than he usually coils his food. I put a blanket over the tank for privacy and he eventually started eating after quite some time.
2 days later he's kinda just hanging around in the middle of his enclosure instead of curled up in his hide like he usually is. he was staring at me earlier but this time not in strike pose.

my question:

have you guys encountered behaviour like this?? He's usually a fairly shy and calm guy, never bit me, never struck at me before. (he struck at my cousins phone once cuz she stupidly kinda shoved it into his face tryna take a picture even tho I CLEARLY TOLD HER NOT TO DO IT. He probably got scared by the large phone. but that was in april or so)

Is this behaviour anything to worry about? and how should I handle it and react when it's feeding time. I'm sorry, i'm very new to owning a BP, I got him in march and has been my first reptile.

[Jbabycsx]

Feeding in a separate container is a bad idea. It places added stress on the snake and can lead to regurgitation. Present the prey to the snake with tongs, let him strike and be done with it.


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[Bogertophis]

Snakes rely on vision to see the motion of their prey, but they don't truly identify it that way...they have to make a snap decision or risk losing- it escapes!

Snakes often get confused when there is the SCENT (their best 'subject') of rodent & then sudden motion...they go for the motion, right or wrong. Oops!

It's not personal...your snake does NOT want to eat you, & if he got a hold of you instead, he'd likely let go in utter disappointment. It's up to you to better
communicate to your snake...they understand scent & touch (<the reason some like to use "hook training" or similar methods), but vision is tricky for snakes.

Snakes such as ball pythons have one more thing they use, & that is the warmth of 'live' prey. Your hands give a nice heat signature, so when your snake is
smelling prey & you move your hand around within his reach, it's not going to end well. Use sufficiently-long feeding tongs, always. Either blunt BBQ-kitchen
tongs, or the jumbo tweezers or non-locking hemostats that many of us prefer.

This all just takes practice, & BPs are best fed in the evening hours; many snakes like some privacy when they eat also....because they themselves are at risk
from other predators (instinctively) while they are constricting & swallowing prey out in the open. Most BPs prefer to snatch food from tongs when they are in
their hides & just peeking out the doorway...that is what that means, btw...that's a BP ambush waiting for prey to happen past.

And yes, feed BPs in the cage where they live...no good reason to handle a snake to put in a side container, unless you like getting bit? If not before, then
after, while they're still pumped up.

[MR Snakes]

feeding in a separate container is a bad idea. It places added stress on the snake and can lead to regurgitation. Present the prey to the snake with tongs, let him strike and be done with it.


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this

[Bogertophis]

And thank you for wanting to learn to feed pre-killed (frozen-thawed or fresh-killed) to your snake, it's far safer for your snake & more humane for the rodents.

Many here swear by using a blow-dryer to really heat up the f/t rodent RIGHT before offering (with tongs), so your BP can zero in on the lifelike heat signature.
Once you just feed your snake where he lives (not in a separate container) it's much simpler...what you've been doing is confusing to the snake.

If your snake is not using his hides, they may not be suitable in terms of size, height or location (too warm?). The more info* you provide (photos of your set-up,
along with temps. & how the heat is regulated) the better we can help you. *Try to be concise though...

[Natail]

And thank you for wanting to learn to feed pre-killed (frozen-thawed or fresh-killed) to your snake, it's far safer for your snake & more humane for the rodents.

Many here swear by using a blow-dryer to really heat up the f/t rodent RIGHT before offering (with tongs), so your BP can zero in on the lifelike heat signature.
Once you just feed your snake where he lives (not in a separate container) it's much simpler...what you've been doing is confusing to the snake.

If your snake is not using his hides, they may not be suitable in terms of size, height or location (too warm?). The more info* you provide (photos of your set-up,
along with temps. & how the heat is regulated) the better we can help you. *Try to be concise though...

Thank you for the reply

I already assumed your answer would be what I thought too,
It's just that, he's just been like this for a few weeks, before that he had no problem at all with any of this, it's really confusing.

I used to feed him in his enclosure, but since he was being picky with f/t (yes, I've tried multiple different heating up ways) I decided to start using the seperate container so he knows he's going to get food when he goes in the box. And for a while it worked out fine until recently. I guess I'll consider going back to the feeding in enclosure like I did before, since the box=food way isn't working as i hoped.

He's curled up in his hide now on the cool side, surprisingly. His hot side is around 32c and the cool side around 25c. He usually hangs out in the warm side's plastic hide or in the middle half log hide I have. I use a pulseproportion exo terra thermostat.
He always used his hide besides yesterday and today. Was very odd. He's just been acting different lately, might it be because it's winter and the ambient temp is getting a bit lower?

[Bogertophis]

Your temps sound fine, but yes, it might just be the "winter" effect...days get shorter & even if they don't feel a difference in temperatures, snakes know by
day length too, supposedly.

[Jellybeans]

I just dont see the point of removing from enclosure to feed.


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[Bogertophis]

I just dont see the point of removing from enclosure to feed....

It's based on the persistent & false conviction that this will help to prevent bites...the kind of bites that might occur if/when you reach into a snake's cage & he is
expecting food & bites you by mistake when you only want to handle him. The belief is that the snake will learn it's only feeding time when in the side cage.

But it doesn't work like that. First, snakes get stressed when handled...sometimes that puts them totally OFF eating [in a side cage]. Then you still have to put them
back in their own cage afterwards: snakes stay in feed mode for hours or even a day, so you're more likely to get bit when you do this. So much for the "advantage".
Additionally, if you handle them awkwardly when returning them to their home, they can also regurgitate what you just fed them.

The best thing is to remember how our snakes sense the world (including us): great sense of smell & touch, vision not so good (best for motion detection, but not for
accurate identification). And snakes like BPs also have heat sensing pits to detect warmth of prey. The idea is not to confuse them & instead give clear signals so they
know what's coming, & there's several ways to do that: "hook training" (a gentle touch using a snake hook or similar harmless item to reach out & touch your snake)
let's them know it's handling time, not food time. Or scent- I use this method with my snakes (non-BPs), I just blow air across my hand in their direction so they can
realize I'm not prey...it's immediately clear to them & they back up (somewhat disappointed, lol). I have a few larger & more excitable snakes that sometimes I like to
use one more signal with for clarity, & that is a simple spritz of water (in their face, when they persist). That seems rude, I know, but it's no worse than getting rained
on...it's a very effective way to "change their channel".

So considering the downsides of feeding in another cage, & the ease of communicating your intentions, you're right, there's no reason not to feed a snake in their own
cage where they feel the most secure & relaxed.

[Jellybeans]

I open my snakes enclosure and handle him at any given time so he really doesn't know or expect it to be feeding time. The only time he is 100% aware that it is feeding time is when I'll lay the Frozen thawed on top of his screen

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