Piebald breeding- level of "whitness" question.

[Weapon-x]

Been out of the hobby for a few years now but getting back into again. Low to medium white pied's have always been my favorite. Nice to see the price on the pieds has come down a bit since I last checked. I'm actively looking for my 1st pied pickup now.

[NormanSnake]

What's your question?

[loonunit]

The amount of white on the parent snakes does not effect the amount of white on the baby snakes. Two low whites could make high white offspring, or you could breed two high whites and get some low whites and high whites, it is all pretty random.

Everyone says this, and yet you go on kingsnake or fauna and see people bragging about their "high-white lines."

The truth is in the middle: Two low whites can indeed hatch a high white, and vice versa. But low whites will tend to hatch low whites, and high whites will have a better chance of hatching high whites (if that is in fact what you want). It's not "genetic" in the sense that morphs are genetic, in that you can't play the dominant and recessive numbers game with it. But you can line breed for tendencies, like people do with dogs or cats or horses, and coax that tendency to come out more often in successive generations.

[MisterKyte]

What most people don't know is the white of a BEL is not as white as that of a pied. Pied white is much more clean and pure in my opinion.

That may be true but they're still all just white snakes in the end. Personally, I don't really care about how absolutely white the snake is and if I have a Piebald, I would want that snake to look like a Piebald! Seems to really defeat the purpose when it no longer has the pattern.

[joebad976]

Everyone says this, and yet you go on kingsnake or fauna and see people bragging about their "high-white lines."

The truth is in the middle: Two low whites can indeed hatch a high white, and vice versa. But low whites will tend to hatch low whites, and high whites will have a better chance of hatching high whites (if that is in fact what you want). It's not "genetic" in the sense that morphs are genetic, in that you can't play the dominant and recessive numbers game with it. But you can line breed for tendencies, like people do with dogs or cats or horses, and coax that tendency to come out more often in successive generations.

I think this is a great topic and the above response is very interesting. At the last repticon in Orlando, I was talking to a breeder (I believe Dale Porcher) regarding Panda Pieds and other Pied combos and he said he bred his high white male pied to a few normals and kept back his own female hets from that male. Then he bred the same male back to the daughters and produced high white animals. His belief was that you can line breed for high whites, just like you can line breed for reduced pattern clowns. I thought it was a very interesting concept. I am not sure it is 100% accurate until additional breeders state the same results but it sounds pretty right on.

[Brandon Osborne]

That may be true but they're still all just white snakes in the end. Personally, I don't really care about how absolutely white the snake is and if I have a Piebald, I would want that snake to look like a Piebald! Seems to really defeat the purpose when it no longer has the pattern.

Which is why I agree with you. I love Pieds and don't care for BELs. I have them, but I have MANY Pieds. They are still my favorite morph.

[SylverTears]

Everyone says this, and yet you go on kingsnake or fauna and see people bragging about their "high-white lines."

The truth is in the middle: Two low whites can indeed hatch a high white, and vice versa. But low whites will tend to hatch low whites, and high whites will have a better chance of hatching high whites (if that is in fact what you want). It's not "genetic" in the sense that morphs are genetic, in that you can't play the dominant and recessive numbers game with it. But you can line breed for tendencies, like people do with dogs or cats or horses, and coax that tendency to come out more often in successive generations.

Well said! Thanks.

[Brandon Osborne]

After breeding Pieds for almost 10 yrs now, I am a firm believer that high white lines are....BS. It is random and breeders are just trying to get more $. Just my opinion and experience.