Scaleless BP

[Slim]

Just curious...

Why don't you agree with breeding spiders? Is there more to the morph than a pattern? New to BPs, just wondering.

Becasue of the nuerological isuess with Spiders and Spider crosses. Again, that is just my personal decision, and have no issue with folks who want to keep Spiders.

[Slim]

Because of the wobble. I would imagine that he wouldn't agree with breeding Caramels because of the kink or Womas because of the super's tendency to die as well.

I don't think we should be breeding kinked Caramels, but I also think that over time the kinking can be outcrossed. Spiders have not shown a tendency to lose the wobble despite extensive outcrossing.

As for Womas. I love Womas, but wouldn't support further tinkering with the super form.

[Sprinkles_Mum]

Becasue of the nuerological isuess with Spiders and Spider crosses. Again, that is just my personal decision, and have no issue with folks who want to keep Spiders.

im also the same.

they are lovely to look at and all. and i dont mind other people having them. but personally i will never own one.

[nybp]

No... I wouldn't...so if I was a reptile I don't think id want to be purposely born without scales.

isn't this the same as a dog who is born blind or with one eye?? they learn to over come....their hearing gets sharper. i have a shepard/rottie mix and he only has sight in one eye. he has always had his head to the side alil so to over compensate for his disability. only time can tell whether this is a "BAD" trait. until then it is a personal choice to own and breed. to not own etc.

[nybp]

do the "bee"s have the wobble?? bc they are spider crosses im wondering if bumbles, killers etc. have a wobble/

[Lateralus_Love]

First off, I respect everyone's opinions, and you are all entitled to them.

My personal opinion is this: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a scaleless Ball Python. It may be odd, but there are other snake species that have scaleless specimens that are thriving, so, obviously it's not the first ever scaleless snake freakazoid. It's just the first ever scaleless Ball Python freakazoid

I also personally find this snake absolutely beautiful. It's odd, I admit. But I think that's part of the reason why I love it.

If other scaleless snakes are doing perfectly fine, and this one lives a healthy life and lives long enough to hit breeding age and weight, then why not give it a go? Obviously, if there were anything terribly wrong with this mutation, it wouldn't last the three years (if it indeed is a female) till it's safely breedable.

Snake scales aren't hard armor encasings like they are on crocodiles. To me they seem pretty fragile. And like another member pointed out, they do next to nothing to preventing rat bites. They're pretty much just an extra layer of tougher skin to go through before you get to the meat. Like the difference between the skin on the bottom of your feet, and your armpit skin lol.

Btw those hairless cats are called Sphynx's, and they're utterly ugly. But completely natural, and they are loved by many, as well as fully capable of reproducing and living normal (though cold) lives.

do the "bee"s have the wobble?? bc they are spider crosses im wondering if bumbles, killers etc. have a wobble/

Any snake carrying the Spider gene will have a wobble. It depends on the snake as to the extent. Some are terrible spinners/corkscrewers, some have hardly noticeable wobbles. My Spider's wobble only shows through when she tries to 'periscope' while she's on the move.

[Morphie]

Never took a course, Morphie, and never had a professor, and never claimed I did.

...

Now, more to the point, I still think a scaleless BP is mutant freak of nature and should not be bred. Don't think I can make is any simpler than that.

And *i* think that the less a person understands how something works, the less willing they should be to form hard-line opinions about it.

(a classic example that you can probably better relate to is non-herpers deciding what the herp-keeping laws should be)

To each their own, I guess.

[muddoc]

As for Womas. I love Womas, but wouldn't support further tinkering with the super form.

Just out of curiosity, why would you not support further attempts? I only ask, because I personally do not believe that this has been attempted very many times. Do you know how many Pearls have been produced? Do you know if any have been produced by crossing two different lines. Do you know if any were produced from very outcrossed stock? I think there are a few things that can be done to attempt to get this homozygous mutation to thrive. I personally will be doing many breedings that have outcomes that are taken as fact, but the data is just not avaiable (i.e. Homozygous Pinstripe, Homozygous Spider, Pearl, Super Pastel x Super Pastel, Caramel x Caramel). My inquiring mind has to see it personally, because I have never believed hear say.

Just my .02,

[Maurice Tebele]

Coolest thing ever! I'd pay. I'm sad there are no more

[singingtothewheat]

I don't disagree with the definition but how you chose to interpret it. Short of a serious dna study in a lab that specializes in it. There is NO way to determine what sort of changes took place here.

[QUOTE=Morphie;971264]Dictionary:
mutation
(myū-tā'shən) pronunciation

3. Genetics.
1. A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type.
2. The process by which such a change occurs in a chromosome, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA coding for a gene or through a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome.
3. A mutant.
Definition of mutant. A mutant is an individual, organism, or new genetic character arising or resulting from an instance of mutation, which is a base-pair sequence change within the DNA of a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the wild type. The natural occurrence of genetic mutations is integral to the process of evolution. The study of mutants is an integral part of biology, by understanding the effect that a mutation in a gene has it is possible to establish the normal function of that gene. In some organisms mutants can be created by gene targeting to asses the function of any given gene. This experimental approach is called reverse genetics. For example, a collection of knockout moss mutants can be used to identify genes with so far unknown functions.

Under this definition, all morphs are a form of a mutation, are they not?


The ball python in question is a mutant (def #3), a result of the event of definition #2: a rearrangement of chromosomes prior to its birth, dealing it a set of alleles that resulted in the inability to form scales, or perhaps a result of definition #1: a change in the sequence of its DNA making the proteins required for scale formation not-viable. Obviously this process could have been interrupted on any part of many pathways.

The organism is viable and stable. It could be considered "defective" because it doesn't have the protective layer over it, but neither do hairless rats, cats, or monkeys, who all do well and thrive in the comfort of a domestic environment.