Unwritten rules of selling hatchling Ball Pythons

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I have seen a couple threads lately, and have seen examples at recent shows where breeders are literally selling hatchling Ball Pythons right out of the egg. I am talking about babies that haven't had their first shed yet, let alone a meal. Maybe we should make some agreed upon acceptable guidelines that we as BP.net members can hold as our standard.

Personally, I think a baby BP should shed, be fed a few times, and allowed to shed again and then fed again before going on a for sale table. I think this should be the absolute minimum assuming the BP is trouble free (meaning it does not refuse meals). Obviously the harder to start babies that are refusing meals should be kept by the breeder for twice as long, or at least until it is eating regularly. Snakes I sell will have at least 3 sheds.

Think about it. Who is most likely going to buy a brand new baby at a show that hasn't even shed yet? or one that has only had 1 meal? I'll tell ya. The brand new newbee that has none of the knowledge or stuff required to get a hatchling up and running. They get the new baby snake home and want to set it up all wrong, and of course want to handle it all the time. Not to mention all the stress the little baby has being on the table, or moving from one location to another.

Now I know some people are importing hatchlings into the united states, and they are brand new hatchlings, having never eaten. IMHO, this is a little different because most of the time the person buying these 10 or so snakes at a time usually has the know how to take care of them. HOWEVER, before that person resells any of the snakes, I think the same waiting period must exist. My personal opinion is that in this instance, they should be kept twice as long before reselling.. A good feeder should be allowed time for 4 sheds before being resold.

Please share your thoughts on this subject. BP.net has enough members that breeders might think twice before selling a newbee a snake that is not ready to be sold at a show. Maybe I am just dreaming...

[LadyOhh]

I've seen it enough, and I have also been behind the counter enough to be able to say this:

From a breeders perspective, I bring my hatchlings to shows. I display them.
If I have someone interested, I let them pick out a baby. BUT!!! I will tell them that they can't take it home.

Why? So that I can take it back home, have it feed three times, cared for, etc etc etc and then arrange for shipping/pickup at my own cost when the animal has been established.

Why do I do it?

Because I am able to show my babies. They are babies, absolutely. But how often do shows happen? Around me? Not often. So I bring what I have. People much rather see in person what they get, even if its puny. So I oblige.

I don't agree with selling fresh out of the egg babies. Too many problems can arise from it..

But, I can see why people do it.

[wolfy-hound]

While I doubt you can hope to have a standard across all sellers, I personally only sell a baby when it has eaten at least 3 times. (And had the first shed).
Most of the time my babys have shed a couple times, and eaten several regular meals before they are sold. But if a responsible person wanted to buy one earlier(say I had something real hot they wanted badly, HA!) then I might sell it to them, but only if I thought they were experianced enough to deal with a new hatchling.

Most breeders I've talked to tend to sell a baby after first shed and fed at least a few times. But I will consider that the BUYER is responsible for knowing what they are buying and how to care for it. I prefer to see babys sold ready to go to a new home, and eat regularly.

[mooingtricycle]

I wont sell any of my animals unless they are feeding and doing WELL (UNLESS its to a person whom i personally know with experience that WANTS it for one reason or another). If someone eats a meal, then skips... They arent going anywhere until they are feeding regularly for me, and feeding for me with enthusiasm.

[mooingtricycle]

Why? So that I can take it back home, have it feed three times, cared for, etc etc etc and then arrange for shipping/pickup at my own cost when the animal has been established.

Thats a very cool ( and costly!) way of doing some serious good business. I like it heather! Ive not heard of this practice before!

[Freakie_frog]

I have yet to do any shows. But I can tell you that I don't feel comfortable letting go of any animal that hasn't eaten at least 3-5 times.

Since its my name and my reputation going with that animal I want to make sure that the buyer gets the best animal they can get. This means that they get a healthy, visualy apealing, animal with a good feeding responce.

IMHO it speaks better of the breeder to tell customers..I want to make sure my animals are the best I can sale, even if it means I may lose a sale because I don't have something available right then.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Most breeders I've talked to tend to sell a baby after first shed and fed at least a few times. But I will consider that the BUYER is responsible for knowing what they are buying and how to care for it.

This is what I agree with, and disagree with too. It certainly is the buyers responsibility to know what they are buying and how to take care of it. BUT, IMHO it is the sellers responsibility to only sell animals that are well enough established to be sold.

[Ben Biscy]

i think it's wrong for a breeder/salesperson to mislead a customer, and sell an ignorant buyer a baby... however, i also think that there are many qualified keepers frequenting the shows, who are more than able to care for a hatchling.

i myself will buy hatchlings if it's what i want, and i will take the time to establish them (i like them better in my care anyway).

so i guess this one can be seen from both sides. scammers should be shot, but i don't think it's completely evil to sell babys, but i do think that conditions should apply.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I do agree with some of the points mentioned to a certain extent. For example, if Robin (sorry to name drop) wanted to buy one of my hatchlings that just shed for the first time, and ate its first meal, I would sell it to her. Why? because I know that she knows even more then me about proper care of a BP hatchling. I do however disagree with putting a hatchling thru all the stresses of being on a show table for 2 or 3 days... Maybe I am just an over protective parent...

Obviously sales among breeders or very experienced folks is a different ballgame. There are a large number of breeders that have absolutely no issue with selling a brand new baby to a newbee... And I think that is wrong.

[Blue Apple Herps]

I personally see both sides.

On the one hand I see nothing wrong with a breeder selling an animal out of the egg. I know several breeders who offer an "out of the egg" sale where you can buy hatchlings fresh out of the egg for a discount. All that's guaranteed is sex - up to you to get it fed and shed. The advantage is that you can often get really high end snakes for much lower prices and if you're experienced, then it shouldn't really be a problem, especially buying from someone who has quality stock to begin with.

On the other hand, selling to someone who is very inexperienced or its their first snake a snake that is "out of the egg" would be irresponsible as a breeder.

But if you're wanting to sell them right out of the egg and to someone who knows that they're doing, I have no problem with that at all.