OK..So What Alternatives Can WE Propose?

[grim reaper in NY]

It's not a case of "giving in" to the pressure. On the contrary, I think we all can honestly admit this bill has ALOT of momentum behind it this year. When asked, we need to have VALID options for a solution and not just take the stance that "they can't do this to us." Like it or not, they CAN do this to us and they WILL unless we can counter with a responsible solution to this problem.
Yes, the economical impact as well as the other impacts a law such as this will have is mind boggling. BUT, how often do our elected politicians THOROUGHLY think through a situation before acting? I can count hundreds of laws that have been passed both on the state and federal levels where the braisn in Washington didn't think through the whole problem and ended up with a bigger mess than they had before.
All I'm doing is getting everyone here to start thinking and preparing for the day we ARE bound by the laws of this country. And don't be surprised if these politicians start looking for valid arguments from our side this coming week. We need to be FULLY prepared and not just stuck on the "they're not taking my pets" mode.

[dr del]

Hi,

Wouldn't abandoning the animals be an offense under the existing animal welfare laws?

Perhaps educating the investigators for the various enforcement agencies about reptile care would be possible through USARK or PIJAC in conjunction with some of the larger breeders and better known reptiule vets?

A distance learning certificate or similar could be created even if a university or something could be persuaded to take part?

I could see a lot of hobbyists and petstore owners as well as professional breeders being intrested in a certification program that has the support of the animal welfare agencies.

While the numbers involved seem almost insignificant compared to the abuse and abandonment levels often quoted for dogs, cats and other mammals there is obviously some reason the exotics are being pushed by those in favour of legislation. Once is an accident or an idiot with a stupid idea - two years running is a sustained and organised campaign.

Perhaps they really do see the exotic pet community as a soft target too fragmented to put up an effective resistance?

That would make us an ideal candidate to test legislation on before going for larger, more publicly supported targets.

There really needs to be some official awareness of the activities of the animal rights groups - I would love to see what other pieces of legislation they are currently working towards. Is that information publically available?

Reacting to it when it lurches mewling into the light of day is one thing - but better to unmask their intentions so that all future attempts are avoided and ignored by legislators as bad for their public image and a vote loser.

In an ideal world anyway.


dr del

[grim reaper in NY]

Your thinking is right on Derek. However, one thing to keep in mind is the money backing these animal rights groups and what that means to the elected officials in office. Do you honestly think if the reptile community could afford to sink 10 or 20 million dollars into an organized plitical party that we would be facing the same issues we're facing now? it's amazing how blind politicians can be when the amount of money padding their cellulitis increases.
One way to find out exactly what legislation might be coming down the pike os for us as reptile owners to join these groups covertly and find out firsthand so we can plan ahead and not get caught with our guard down.

[Melicious]

So...I was thinking. I know, scary.

I'm a huge gun advocate, and taking gun safety classes is a great way to get educated. What if we had licenses for the larger reptiles, and maybe set up snake educational classes? This way, we're actually putting money IN to the economy, creating more jobs, etc.

I don't know. I support permits. I think they're a great idea, and I would pay X amount of money to be able to protect my snakes. It's important for us to meet them half-way, but not let them walk all over us. Any of us.

As far as the fish, bird, small mammal people? Chips are a great idea for that front, I think. Maybe even go so far as doing a class too. I'm just trying to brainstorm here.

[toddmbecker1234]

I somewhat agree with some kind of control or permit system being emplaced. If I want to work with hots I need to be trained by someone that is certified in hots. Basically like what florida did with hots. Someone trains me and signs off on my application. Not saying it would be a perfect system but it would atleast provide training that people now not necassarily are getting. It would stop all the young people from walking into their petstores and buying a reticulated python or a crocadile monitor. Todd

[nixer]

i am against permits period.
i would support microchips for large herps i.e. anacondas, burms, retics.
i would also like to see laws enforced.

many many times we see pet stores that do not properly care for their animals and yet law enforcement seems to care and alot of areas there is little to no aspca.

many many times we see herps dumped because in alot of places ppl dont know where to take them or there is no place to take them. heck even animal control does not know what to do with these specialized animals. i would like to see some kind of list system for all local animal control officers to contact ppl that would help care for these animals either temporary or permenantly.

[PythonWallace]

Dear Committee Member,
I am writing you to express my strong opposition for House Resolution 669,"The Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act". As written, this bill as an overbearing and vague attempt to completely ban pet ownership in the United States by using the excuse that thousands of non-native species are a direct threat to our environment, and our safety, with domestic dogs and cats obviously being the exception, for now. The facts show that the reasoning for this proposal in nearly complete fiction, and the proposed solution of a nationwide ban on the importation, breeding, selling and transporting of these thousands of species is an outrageous attack on pet owners, breeders, and pet stores, as well as the hobbies and indeed the livelihood of millions of Americans. The exotic pet trade currently employs millions of Americans, and generates tens of billions of dollars annually. Besides banning the pets and hobbies of millions of Americans, this bill will be yet another huge blow to the economy and the employment level. After knowing the facts, it becomes apparent that any arguments in favor of a bill such as H. R. 669 are not realistic, and that if the environmental concerns are sincere, the USFW and congress should look into imposing restrictions or safeguards on the importation of goods and building materials from foreign countries, as well as implementing safeguards on international watercraft using our waterways.

• While researching the government’s list of invasive species that are causing problems to the native environment at http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov
nearly every species on the list was not introduced through the pet trade, but through piggy backing in cargo and in ballast water of ships and barges, while some were brought in for agricultural purposes and got out of hand. The largest problems seem to be insects and fish that came to the U.S. From Asia in ship water and cargo.
• Thousands of non-native pet species have been in the U.S. For decades with very few problems.
• Non-native pet species that have caused problems have nearly all been restricted to small, specific localities, with most species only being able to survive in very specific environmental conditions. Any restrictions on such species should be well researched by independent scientists to determine the possible threat on a case by case basis, and restrictions presented on a very local level, only in areas where there is real potential for each species to thrive.
• Every species of potentially dangerous constrictor has very specific survivable environmental conditions that are limited in this country to the southern tip of Florida. Any restrictions that are reasoned by environmental concerns of competition with native species should be limited to the southern counties of Florida.
• Feral domestic cats in areas across the U.S. Are responsible for more competition with native wild life than any non-native animal introduced through the pet trade.
• Only 15% of the snakes, worldwide are potentially dangerous to humans, with most states already having regulations in place for the ownership of such species.
• Reptiles are only responsible for less than 12 deaths annually. Most are attributed to venomous snakes, and most of those are attributed to native wild life, the Eastern and Western Diamondback rattle snakes, to be specific.
• The national average for snake bites is 4 people in every 100,000, with most being harmless, needing no medical treatment, while the national average for dog bites is 2,000 people in every 100,000, with 1 in 6 requiring emergency medical treatment. Dog attacks are responsible for more than 30 deaths annually. The average for domestic cats is about 900 in 100,000 people, with 80% of cat bites becoming infected and needing treatment.

Sources:
http://www.invasivespecies.gov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

For starters chain retail stores should not be allowed to sell reptiles and amphibians. period. This is how idiots end up with burmese pythons and alligators. Specialty shops should still be able to, but there needs to be some kind of liscense or permit to sell them in their store out there that is regulated so that the shop itself isn't neglecting the animals.

Reptiles over certain sizes should require a permit to keep, as well as venomous animals. That way, not every joe shmoe will end up owning an alligator, a burmese python, or a nile monitor/iguana they can't control. If people have to pay for a permit to keep an animal, the majority will say "screw it".... if they go through with it, obviously it is something that they really want to do and are much more likely to give proper care to it.

Actual laws need to be in place that make people just as responsible for neglecting/mistreating reptiles as a dog or a cat. The problem is that since a dog makes everyone go awwwwww, the abuser is ten times more likely to be stiffly apprehended for their crime. The same level of care that is exhibited for dogs and cats is not there as far as reptiles are concerned.

[joepythons]

Ok see how this sounds.In order to drive you have to take a test and show you can drive resposibly BEFORE you get a license.So BEFORE anyone is allowed to own ANY reptile they should be forced to take a test and pass it 100% BEFORE they are allowed to buy a reptile.Then said reptiles will be microchipped so IF they are released they can be tracked back to the owner.Then the owner will be punished not everyone else .So what do you think about this idea

[mainbutter]

Permits can be, unfortunatly, prohibitively expensive, especially if it is a per-animal permit as is likely the case.

That would RUIN any breeders of animals that require permits. Could you imagine how much dough it would cost in permits once you hatched out a 20 foot retic's eggs for a single season?