Is it ethical to keep snakes in rack systems?

[DutchHerp]

My argument for this was that they can look around and thus have more of that "discovery" element. Good point though...

[DutchHerp]

Absolutely not. Actually, I've heard more stories from my customers of snakes doing better after being moved from a cage to a tub. Better at eating, shedding, breeding, etc.

A large enclosure is very complicated when it comes to providing the correct environmental conditions when it comes to ball pythons ... tubs make it a lot simpler and in the end, providing ball pythons with the correct temps and humidity is the most important aspect of keeping them successfully.

If you want to stimulate them, regular handling and exercise outside of the enclosure is the best thing to do whether you are using cages or racks.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Definitely helps. Thanks Adam.

Hopefully other people can share their views and opinions too!

[wolfy-hound]

You have to make sure you are not imposing what you as a human would want, vs what a snake would want.
Most snakes want to stay hidden, and eat. On occasion they might want to mate. If you put a ball python in a giant pen, with lots of lighting and plants and stimulous, and hides. They stay in the hides. That's a major complaint of ball python owners to me, that the snake just sits in the hide all the time. That tells me that the snake prefers to stay hidden in a enclosed dark spot.
I've kept snakes in large and smaller tanks, set up with tons of hides, and with nearly none. I went to racks, because the snakes seem less stressed to me.
I don't disagree with giving a ball python a giant open enclosure.. but if the snake isn't eating, and roams around looking for a spot to hide in, then why would you WANT to stress the snake, just to make it live as if it had human wants?
I'll try to find the thread too.

Edit: here it is
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=81034

[greghall]

They are not human or have human feelings they don't care,snakes are simple creatures they don't need much.

[pythontricker]

If you were to observe them in their natural habitat, you would notice that they really just sit in their burrow for 98% of their lives.They don't really move unless they are hunting, drinking, or breeding.

[DutchHerp]

I know that BPs especially hide out a lot.

My JCP is in his hide about 5% of the time. He's always basking and moving around at night.

I have a nice AP cages for him, but would carpets do good in racks? Colubrids?

[Bruce Whitehead]

The only people that seem to think this is a controversial issues are those that do not use tubs, and from my experience, they are the minority.

Upon making that move it took me all of about 48 hours to realize the change in keeping constant temps and humidity.

As already noted, I have adopted/rescued numerous snakes that were being kept in tanks, most are thriving after being moved into tubs. Not to say that is the only element, but I personally will no longer take on animals that have been kept in glass tanks.

Elements as simple as the need to decorate them... everything you put in has to come out and be disinfected when cleaning. That heavy tank has to moved, wiped, rinsed, washed, etc. How is that going to hold up over the next 20-40 years?

A tub takes nothing to clean, and is not cumbersome to attend to.

By the time someone moves a snake into a tub, and gets it set up, there tends to have been a fairly steep learning curve occurring. Which *insinuates* to me that there has been more attention to what I would consider proper husbandry.

Just my 0.02 cents.

Bruce

PS: Not saying there are not attentive keepers that keep snakes in great vivs, I just feel that maintaining a tank falls under "advanced husbandry" and I think they should be worked towards, and not be promoted as starter projects.

[Argentra]

Personally... it's not an ethics issue as much as a "comfort of the snake" issue. With any animal you own, you must learn to tune in to their own likes and dislikes. It gets harder the more animals you have, of course, but it's still doable.

As for racks, I would only keep ball pythons in something like that since they are naturally less active. They don't move long distances to hunt, but hang out in limited areas. They spend their days in burrows and the like. Therefore, they don't need/want a ton of space like other snake species.
HOWEVER, I do not like that most racks use tubs that are only 6" high. Granted, the snake doesn't need cathedral ceilings, but I think 6" is way too short. I believe this even more strongly since I used a 41qt tub to quarantine my biggest female when I rescued her and she was noticeably miserable in there! Once I moved her into the 90qt tub (same L and W, but 12" high) she was much happier. Now I plan on moving her to a 30g tank once my remodel of snake space is done since she just thrives on having room to lift her head and look about when she's out.
Another snake of mine simply hates tubs! She totally stops all normal behavior and eating when I try to put her in one. So, she lives in a 20long tank.

Give you snakes what they live best in. If they thrive, eat regularly, and do all the normal snake things in a 30g tank, then keep them in that tank. If they prefer the small, dark space of a rack...then that's what they should get.

[DutchHerp]

Thanks for all your input guys.

[Melicious]

I have to agree with Adam and Bruce.

I think that whatever's best for your snake is "ethical." My snakes all thrive in tubs. Some might not. -Shrugs.-