Some final thoughts on my Wobbler.

[gtlevine]

My new baby bumblebee has the wobbles. At first I panicked, then I did my research on this forum and elsewhere. Many said this is a behavior pattern in spider complex. I talked with my college friend this morning who has a PHD in Biology and works in research. His view is it is not a behavior problem, but an inbred neurological problem. In other words, our wobblers are brain damaged. A behavior must be uniformally distributed in a given species with minor deviations, since this issue is primarily in spiders and to a lesser degree in other morphs, it is not normal behavior. That being said, I have some thoughts.

1) Any breeder should disclose this to all buyers ahead of time and let them know the degree of wobble each animal has.

2) My bumble bee, which I now call bumblehead, is a knock dead gorgeous snake. I figure she is similar to my wife, beautiful, but not the sharpest tool in the shed. If have been happily married to my wife of 18 years, I will be happy with my bumblehead.

3) My friend has a down syndrome child and she is the sweetest kid on earth, unlike my pain in the ass 15 year old. My bumblehead has similar qualities to a my friends down syndrome kid; not that sharp, but absolutely a sweet snake. In the short time I had her, she never rolls in a ball, comes out of the cage without fear, and has this goofy look in the eyes like she knows she is a moron but is still happy.

4) Snakes are not that smart anyway. So your ball pythons are dumb!, mine is dumber!! whats the difference?

So for all those out there with wobblers, feel blessed. My wobbler is only a juvenile, but I won't be dissapointed if she does not grow out of it.

Gary

[SamuraiZr0]

great analogies.. and i'm glad yer happy with the snake.. if it grows normally and healthy then there should be no porbs!

[anendeloflorien]

I heard an interesting theory on why spiders and spider morphs "wobble". Don't take this as fact, I posted it before and nobody on here had ever heard it before, but I heard this from a vendor at the last reptile show up here.

He was saying that he heard of a study that was done where they showed that spiders actually see everything as spinning constantly, which causes them to spin around to try to make the world seem upright. Supposedly as they get older they learn to either control the spinning or they just learn to work with it thats why most older spiders do not show as many signs of the dreaded "wobble".

I actually talked to Kara Glasgow up at NERD about the "wobble" when I got my spider from them and she was saying that the original spider which was brought in from Africa by them had the "wobble" and it's just been passed down through the many generations of spiders (I believe that that spider was one of, if not the original spider to be brought into the US).

My spider does "wobble" sometimes but it's not a violent thing, though I have seen other spiders who constantly spin and contort themselves in ways that I can't see being very comfortable or safe for the snake. Like your bumblebee my little guy is without a doubt one of the most outgoing, lovable snake that I own and I absolutely LOVE him .

[Freakie_frog]

Having some first hand experience with Spiders and the spinning I'll going my input.

1) Any breeder should disclose this to all buyers ahead of time and let them know the degree of wobble each animal has.

This is difficult because what I consider a slight wobble you might think is a train wreck. So you demand that breeders disclose to what degree they wobble is difficult. Also I have seen animals that when startled or exposed to intense sudden bright lights as babies exhibit severe wobble symptoms but when calmly handled show no signs at all. So the degree can be environmentally invoked.

2) My bumble bee, which I now call bumblehead, is a knock dead gorgeous snake. I figure she is similar to my wife, beautiful, but not the sharpest tool in the shed. If have been happily married to my wife of 18 years, I will be happy with my bumblehead.

This is key. To see that despite his differance you still enjoy him means you got you you expected in a Ball Python Morph.

3) My friend has a down syndrome child and she is the sweetest kid on earth, unlike my pain in the ass 15 year old. My bumblehead has similar qualities to a my friends down syndrome kid; not that sharp, but absolutely a sweet snake. In the short time I had her, she never rolls in a ball, comes out of the cage without fear, and has this goofy look in the eyes like she knows she is a moron but is still happy.

I Love this connection. Children with down syndrome are "all there" they just process their environment differently. Spinner Spiders are the exact same way. They eat, shed, drink, poop, thermo-regulate, breath, pee. This is why I don't think its a "Neurological" issue but rather a motor function one. If it was "Brain Damage" then you see other issues with muscle control in other parts of the body, eyes, mouth, bowls, tongue. But we don't it only crops up on locomotive functions much like a Palsy of some sort.

4) Snakes are not that smart anyway. So your ball pythons are dumb!, mine is dumber!! whats the difference?

So for all those out there with wobblers, feel blessed. My wobbler is only a juvenile, but I won't be dissapointed if she does not grow out of it.

Gary

Gary yours isn't dumb. If it eats, sleep, drinks, poops, pees, sheds then is a healthy living Ball Python, it just gets around different.

[West Coast Jungle]

They are not dumb, just special

My first thought was anyone spending the money on a bumblebee might have done a little research on the morph. Wobbles have been common knowledge for many years now and if someone was spending a $1,000+ on a morph one would asume they probably know that. I'm not trying to knock you in any way but I think most breeders would assume some background knowledge when someone purchases a higher end animal, thats all.

[filly77]

I figure she is similar to my wife, beautiful, but not the sharpest tool in the shed.

um...

[Somed00d]

I have a possible het pied female that has a wobble. She had a large urate block and went down hill fast. I believe she had a systematic infection as a result or even temporary organ failure. I nursed her back to health but she picked up a head wobble. She functions more or less fine but when she strikes her food she has terrible aim. She is still young (08 girl) and I will likely not breed her but but if the wobble goes away I may give her a shot.

I hope you enjoy your snake!

Richard

[rbchesapeakeball]

When I was a kid, a long time ago, one of my friend's Dad could never walk a straight line, appearing a little tipsy, but he did not drink. He had an inner ear disorder that effected his equilibrium.

Probably hasn't been any research on why spiders appear,to me, to have something like this, as it has only recently been proven that snakes have an inner ear.

Opinions?

Rich

[scotty99]

Interesting thread as I have just bought a bumblebee male online. I have had some photos emailed to me from the shop. I am waiting for him to be couriered up from London when the weather conditions are fair. I'm taking a chance buying blind. Where does a buyer stand if they buy a spider with bad wobbles, or developes wobbles? Or is it just buyer beware.

Do the offspring from a bad wobbler equally adopt the bad wobble genes , or is it pot luck whether your snake gets the wobbles from any spider based parent regardless of whether the parents show wobble?

Sorry for the overuse of the word "wobble".............

[Hapa_Haole]

Spinner Spiders are the exact same way. They eat, shed, drink, poop, thermo-regulate, breath, pee. This is why I don't think its a "Neurological" issue but rather a motor function one. If it was "Brain Damage" then you see other issues with muscle control in other parts of the body, eyes, mouth, bowls, tongue.

But motor functioning is controlled by the brain, is it not? I took a biological basis of behavior psychology class two semesters ago and there are an infinite number of pathways in the brain controlling many different things. If one connection or pathway is disrupted then this behavior could certainly happen without anything else being disrupted, especially if wobbling is a product of impaired perception rather than motor funtion.

But there isn't really any way to determine who is correct and your reasoning is more likely right then mine...If something is screwed up in motor control/functioning its very likely that more than one thing will be altered. I just wanted to point out that it isn't necessarily the case. : )