WTHs going on?

[Beardedragon]

Alright, two litters have been "layed" this week. one had 14, one had 15. How many do I have now? 7 These are both moms that have never had any trouble with their past litters. I keep finding Dead pinks? No bite marks or anything, the first litter looked premature but she was on time and huge when she had them. All of them have milkbands. Im not sure what to think of this, Again they have both had litters before and all the babys were born alive and grew up to make great feeders.

I keep them on Equine Fresh with a little bit of pine, both times I had just cleaned out the tubs before they had their litters.The rats are around 6 months old. So... What the Hecks going on!?

[Beardedragon]

Update, im down to two

A little more info, the tubs both times have been cleaned before they have had them, so no dust to suffocate babys.

[Drew87]

some are just not ment to survive sorry for you loss. but keep your head up

[ThyTempest]

Switch from pine to aspen. Pine has some phenols naturaly in the wood, just not as much as cedar. Switching to a "Cleaner" wood may help.

[Peter Williams]

Switch from pine to aspen. Pine has some phenols naturaly in the wood, just not as much as cedar. Switching to a "Cleaner" wood may help.

While I believe you are correct about the phenols, I don't know if there is enough to pose a risk to rats. I've been keeping rats on pine for well over a year and have had absolutely no problems. I did switch to aspen for about a month some time ago to try it out, and found it horrible to keep rats on. From what I can see it does not have the same absorbancy as pine. I was finding myself needing to chance cages every 4-5 days as opposed to every 7 days with pine.

Just my 2 cents.

[marmie]

I was hoping someone would have an answer for you because I don't!

However, I did want to throw this out there . . .When I first started I lost an entire colony with the exception of one breeder male, I'm talking moms and babies of all sizes. I know it's because we put a feeder baby from the local reptile store in with one of the nursing mothers because one of our snakes refused to eat it. The colony was wiped out within 3 days. We had no idea that this could happen so it was a hard lesson to learn.

I'm sorry most of your babies died. I'd still keep trying with these mothers though, at least one more time. Give the moms a couple weeks to rest.

BTW, I use pine and newspaper.

[littleindiangirl]

While I believe you are correct about the phenols, I don't know if there is enough to pose a risk to rats. I've been keeping rats on pine for well over a year and have had absolutely no problems. I did switch to aspen for about a month some time ago to try it out, and found it horrible to keep rats on. From what I can see it does not have the same absorbancy as pine. I was finding myself needing to chance cages every 4-5 days as opposed to every 7 days with pine.

Just my 2 cents.

Pine is not good to keep rats on from what I've read. I choose not to use it, but many do. This is what I've read so far about using pine shavings.


http://ratguide.com/care/environment...ing_litter.php

Cedar or Pine
Cedar and pine are choices that you want to avoid. Unfortunately they are usually sold in pet stores right next to the rodent supplies. Tests have shown that the phenols (aromatic hydrocarbons) that are found in these softwoods are toxic to rats and other small animals. This toxic substance is what makes the litter have the strong smell, which covers up the odors of urine but at a hazardous cost to your rat. It is the oils containing these phenols that you find in many household cleaning products like pine-fresh and pine-sol.

If you use pine or cedar you are jeopardizing your rat�s health in several ways. Long term inhalation of these chemicals can compromise the rat�s immune system making it more prone to respiratory problems such as mycoplasma. It has also been scientifically documented that the phenols in these softwoods alter the levels of the liver enzymes, which can lead to liver disease and even liver failure.

There is a longer article I've read before, but I dont have it bookmarked. It's more indepth than that snippet.



How old are your rats? You do communal nursing correct?

Try giving them a bunch of aspen shavings to use. Equine fresh can kill litters of pinks by stuffing up their noses.

[Beardedragon]

some are just not ment to survive sorry for you loss. but keep your head up

But for two litters?!

How old are your rats? You do communal nursing correct?

Try giving them a bunch of aspen shavings to use. Equine fresh can kill litters of pinks by stuffing up their noses.

How old? These were three months old in june, so 5 months old. And yes

Read my second post

Blah ive still got no answers to what is happening here,im using the same set up ive had for many many litters, most from the same moms having the problems!! Id hate to loose anymore -30 pinks is a HUGE blow! It may just be one mom has gone biserk and has been killing the other litter as well as her own.

[frankykeno]

More info though please. Are they rat pinks simply disappearing (in other words they've been eaten) or are they just laying there dead (some must be since you mentioned the dead ones had milkbands) or are they dead and partially eaten? How many females in the tub? How many total rats in the tub? Are both litters that were lost from the same tub? Any changes in husbandry, food, new pets in your house, anything at all like that? Any new rats added to your colony over the past couple of months?

[Beardedragon]

More info though please. Are they rat pinks simply disappearing (in other words they've been eaten) or are they just laying there dead (some must be since you mentioned the dead ones had milkbands) or are they dead and partially eaten? How many females in the tub? How many total rats in the tub? Are both litters that were lost from the same tub? Any changes in husbandry, food, new pets in your house, anything at all like that? Any new rats added to your colony over the past couple of months?

Are they rat pinks simply disappearing (in other words they've been eaten) or are they just laying there dead (some must be since you mentioned the dead ones had milkbands)

Both, but im finding alot more laying around than are being eaten

How many females in the tub?

Three

Are both litters that were lost from the same tub?

Yes, but my third litter is doing fine.


Any changes in husbandry, food, new pets in your house, anything at all like that? Any new rats added to your colony over the past couple of months

No, No,No, and the only new rats added... Wait a second... Im missing an adult rat here? er... BRB this is important! EDIT alright, shes still there! I forgot that she is the mother of the second litter here ( PHEW, freaked out a little, got to thinking about what rats are in what tubs and couldnt place her!)

Anyways, the only new rats ive added are ones from their last litters. Everything has been the same and so forth. I talk the Em om aim ( Meledee) and we think that the first mom had a bad litter, seeing how the last and only survivor from her litter looks horrible, as well as the now gone ones, and another litter was born so shortly afterwards she may have done the same thing thinking they might have been defective as well. Reason why if you have the space seperate moms! Im sure their next litters will be fine. Thanks everyone!