Explain "supers" to me plz

[Mochelem]

I still dont understand supers and Im trying to find this info out in laymans terms here.. For example "The Complete Ball Python" shows super cinnamon pastels, it says they can be black, brown or silver patternless snakes. But it says its the result of breeding a patternless to a normal....

Im so confused here, is a super somthing that just happens with a bit of luck or is there a way to breed them? Also is a super somthing that only happens to a dominant or co-dominant animal? I just dont ever see supers from recessive trait animals....

[butters!]

a quik example,breeding a pastel to another pastel= 50%pastels 25%super pastels and 25%normal balls.once you have a super you can breed that to a normal and get some supers some pastels and some normals.my percentages might be off cuz its really kinda luck from wat i have read on here

[kc261]

I still dont understand supers and Im trying to find this info out in laymans terms here.. For example "The Complete Ball Python" shows super cinnamon pastels, it says they can be black, brown or silver patternless snakes. But it says its the result of breeding a patternless to a normal....

Im so confused here, is a super somthing that just happens with a bit of luck or is there a way to breed them? Also is a super somthing that only happens to a dominant or co-dominant animal? I just dont ever see supers from recessive trait animals....

That is the book by Kevin at NERD, right? I think you must be misreading it. I don't have it myself (yet!), but I find it hard to imagine he says that you can get a super cinnamon by breeding a patternless to a normal.

a quik example,breeding a pastel to another pastel= 50%pastels 25%super pastels and 25%normal balls.once you have a super you can breed that to a normal and get some supers some pastels and some normals.my percentages might be off cuz its really kinda luck from wat i have read on here

You are right both with your percentage and with it being a lot of luck. Those percentages are what you can expect on average, but what really happens is each egg has a 50% change of being pastel, 25% chance of being super, and 25% chance of being normal.

It is somewhat like flipping a coin. You would expect on average that you will get 50% heads and 50% tails. But really, each time you flip it, those are your chances. So it is very possible to flip a coin twice and get either both heads or both tails, instead of one of each.

So did I help or make it more confusing?

[Creative Morphs]

a quik example,breeding a pastel to another pastel= 50%pastels 25%super pastels and 25%normal balls.once you have a super you can breed that to a normal and get some supers some pastels and some normals.my percentages might be off cuz its really kinda luck from wat i have read on here

Actually, breeding a super to a normal will give you all pastels.

[butters!]

Actually, breeding a super to a normal will give you all pastels.

mu bad

[kc261]

Actually, breeding a super to a normal will give you all pastels.

Oh, good catch. I got caught up in the numbers and completely missed that sentence.

[blackcrystal22]

Alright, this explanation is also a question of clarity for myself.

So is a super like this? Supers come from co-dominant traits correct?
So you guys all remember learning about genetics in biology? Well I remember it with flowers.

Red flower is dominant, pink is co-dom, and white is recessive.

So if you breed two pink flowers together, you get a hot pink flower.

Is that basically how it works?

[kc261]

Alright, this explanation is also a question of clarity for myself.

So is a super like this? Supers come from co-dominant traits correct?
So you guys all remember learning about genetics in biology? Well I remember it with flowers.

Red flower is dominant, pink is co-dom, and white is recessive.

So if you breed two pink flowers together, you get a hot pink flower.

Is that basically how it works?

Um, not quite. First of all, I think it depends on the species of flower, so for all I know, that would be true for some species.

However, red/white/pink flowers are an example frequently used in biology text books to illustrate incomplete dominant traits. Red and white are incompletely dominant to each other, so if you breed them together, you get pink. If red and white were co-dominant, you'd get flowers with red and white spots instead of pink. If red was dominant and white was recessive, you'd get all red, which would be het for white, but you couldn't tell by looking at them. And if white was dominant to red, you'd get all white flowers which would be het for red, but you couldn't tell by looking at them. (These examples assume that the red dominant flower and the white dominant flower were homozygous, which isn't really a safe assumption unless they've been breeding true for several generations.)

To try to put it into BP terms, first of all forget about the difference between incomplete dominant and co-dominant. They work the same as far as breeding goes, so it doesn't matter that much. Most of the BP traits that are commonly referred to as co-dom are actually incomplete dominant traits if you wanted to be technical about it, but for the rest of this explanation I'm just going to use co-dom to keep it simple.

So, assume white is the "normal" or "wild" type. One day, someone sees a pink flower. They get all excited. Cool! New morph! They breed it to a white/normal flower. They get (approximately) 50% pink and 50% white offspring. At this point, the pink morph could be dominant, and the individual pink flower that was found was heterozygous, OR the pink morphs could be co-dom. You can't be sure at this point.

Eventually, they breed a pink to a pink. They get (approximately) 50% pink, 25% white, and 25% red. They got a super, yay! And that proves that the trait is co-dom.

So, yes, supers come from co-dom traits. Dominant and recessive traits are either "on" or "off", but co-dom traits have a "halfway on" possibility, and the "fully on" expression is called the super.

[butters!]

we have passed laymens terms

[JLC]

See if this helps at all...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52847