Have a serious little problem and need help

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Backround info: I have my breeders set up in 10 gallon tanks. 1.4 ratio. I use equine fresh, and feed primarily mazuri 6f from a hopper.... with ocasional wild bird seed or carrots as a treat. there is a running wheel hanging from the top, and I keep a 4" 2x4 in at all times for chewing.

I noticed that in the tank that has 100% rats from my newest line (have had them about 4 months) 2 of the girls have developed nasty sores. One has a big one on its leg, the other has one on the back of its neck, and one under the chin. This puzzles me because they are my biggest, healthiest looking line, and average the biggest litters. (average litter has been 14+) The sores look nasty because they look like they have dust from the pine pellets stuck in the scabs, and look infected. I noticed this a few days ago.

Well, last night I was watching them around midnight, and the male was feeling frisky and was mating with all of 4 of the females. I noticed he was VERY ruff with them.. grabbing, biting, fighting, and then mating. One bled a little from his bite. I have watched ASF's mate many times. this was definately rougher then usual... but like I said, apparenly he does the job better then average!

Do you think the agressive male is where the sores are coming from? My guess is that he is being too rough, they are getting cut, then the darn dust from the pine pellets is getting in the open wounds and helping them to get infected.... Or maybe it is some kind of allergy... or maybe there is just something wrong with the line....

To try to isolate and / or fix the problem, I removed all the children ( 29 babies, all with just opened eyes) and cleaned the tank and put aspen in instead of the equine fresh. (have never used the aspen for ASF's)

Any info anyone can give on this would be greatly appreciated.

[littleindiangirl]

any Pics?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Ok I know this will end up in the out of context thread

Injuries from rough sex do happen when breeding rodents; I see it happening more often in mice than I do rats, so far it has not happened with the ASF.

As always it depends on the individuals.

The solution can be pretty simple; zero tolerance feed the bully of. (that’s what I do, I tend to have zero tolerance for overly aggressive individuals)

Now it can also be some allergy or parasites hard to tell without seeing the animal.

You need to rule it out one by one.

If it was parasites several animals would be affected by this.

As far as food allergy, do you feed dog food or anything high in protein?

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Ok I know this will end up in the out of context thread

Injuries from rough sex do happen when breeding rodents; I see it happening more often in mice than I do rats, so far it has not happened with the ASF.

As always it depends on the individuals.

The solution can be pretty simple; zero tolerance feed the bully of. (that’s what I do, I tend to have zero tolerance for overly aggressive individuals)

Now it can also be some allergy or parasites hard to tell without seeing the animal.

You need to rule it out one by one.

If it was parasites several animals would be affected by this.

As far as food allergy, do you feed dog food or anything high in protein?

Yes, you have been quoted out of context.

No dog food, only Mazuri 6F.

My number one theory is rough sex, that causes minor wounds.... Then the nasty dusty pine pellet dust gets in the wound... dries it out, and deposits all kinds of germs and nasties in the open wound. Infection.

Does that sound feasable? If so, changing them to aspen would fix it right? (of course assuming the infection is not too far along)

[Mike Cavanaugh]

any Pics?

No. I tried a few times, but can't get a shot of it. would have to put them down to do it, and I don't want to loose this group if it is fixable.

[frankykeno]

Sounds like it's a combination of an aggressive breeder male and that pine dust. Personally I'd be picking one of his sons to keep in the colony to replace him real soon. I've found with my regular rats, if a male is a rough breeder he'll only get worse and be more destructive to the females. I don't know if ASF's are the same and since you can't just introduce another male to those females, you might want to just raise up another male in there and feed off the nasty daddy.

[Midwest Morphs]

I dont mean to pull back an old post.

But Mike what ever happened to your female with the sores?

My largest, healthiest female in my original group has some ugly sores on her chin and she has a fairly large sore, almost looks like a nasty wart on her side. I do not ever see any really roughness from any of the three of them. They all seem to get along well.

I feed them Harlan Tek 2018 and they are living in carefresh bedding.

Any thoughts

[littleindiangirl]

ASF's are prone to spontaneous warty tumors that erupt from the skin, and also stomach tumors. You'll see them as they age past 9 months (or so). If they scratch and make it bleed or infect the skin tumors, you will likely need to get a new breeder.

If it's not growing too quickly, and isn't prohibiting a normal life, then I wouldnt worry about it right now. My first male had a huge tumor grow very quickly in his right ear, and one in his stomach, and one on his back. He likely would have died from the stomach one eventually, but the ear was bloody, scabbed and continued to grow at an alarming rate. He was put down, and another male was left with his colony to take over.

I have science articles saved somewhere if people want to read about it, I think I found them at pubmed and..... well can't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to dig them up, but yea. Didn't read about it at the time Mike's had the outbreaks.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

yeah, this is an old thread....

the problem never happened again. none of their offspring ever developed any of the sores. I have litterally produced THOUSANDS directly related to that group and never saw it again.

Honestly, if I had to guess, I would say it was caused by something the breeder did before I got that origional group. Bad substrate, bad food, poor husbandry, who knows. Just makes sense to me that it must have been something he was doing wrong.... otherwise I would have seen happen again with the kids.

Mike