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  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran Spaniard's Avatar
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    Selective Breeding and the Market

    Albey's thread with stunning pastels got me thinking about the effects of selective breeding and market pricing.

    http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=70634

    Do you think efforts from people such as Albey will help bring back the value to morphs like the pastel and other low $$ co-doms?

    Just curious as to what everyone thinks...
    ~*Rich
    1.0 100% Het Albino
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    1.0 Spider
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    1.0 Pastel 100% Het Goldfinger
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  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran littleindiangirl's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    I would LIKE to see that make the difference!

    I think I heard Larry and BT talking about this on Reptie radio... why are we lowering the prices in a market that costs more to just keep, raise and breed them?

    I like to think selective breeding will have a heavy hand in the future market, but as our hobby grows, those with lesser good looking animals will probably just cut their selling price in half just to get the animals moving... so who will buy the top of the line animals? Will it be breeders, or pet owners?

  3. #3
    BPnet Senior Member jglass38's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    From my point of view, they all have value. Value in what they can produce in combos and value in what they can provide as a pet for someone. While the consistent dropping in price across the whole market bothered me slightly, I have the vision to see past the first breeding season. So many people have bought up all the codoms they could find hoping to get rich. I love seeing those same people selling their collections on KS every day. Sure I paid $1000 for my first Pastel. He has already made me that much and his offspring I have kept will continue to for years. In my opinion, the market will stabilize eventually. I guess we'll have to see who is still around and who has jumped ship because they couldn't make back their money in 1 season.

    As far as selective breeding, I think it's great! I love seeing guys like Albey putting up pics of some amazing animals that were produced with care and thought rather than by throwing any two animals together. But for me, they all have value...

  4. #4
    BPnet Veteran Spaniard's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    Quote Originally Posted by littleindiangirl View Post
    I would LIKE to see that make the difference!

    I think I heard Larry and BT talking about this on Reptile radio... why are we lowering the prices in a market that costs more to just keep, raise and breed them?

    I like to think selective breeding will have a heavy hand in the future market, but as our hobby grows, those with lesser good looking animals will probably just cut their selling price in half just to get the animals moving... so who will buy the top of the line animals? Will it be breeders, or pet owners?
    I think it will be people like us; small time hobbyist/breeders that are slowly building their collections up. Those that care about their animals and the quality of genes in their breeding stock. I hope selective breeding will cut out people with less appealing animals, and make people care and be more discriminate about the animals they breed/purchase. Why bother spending $200 for a brown pastel when you can spend more and get a stunning example of the trait. Maybe I'm just a wishful thinker...?

    Quote Originally Posted by jglass38 View Post
    From my point of view, they all have value. Value in what they can produce in combos and value in what they can provide as a pet for someone. While the consistent dropping in price across the whole market bothered me slightly, I have the vision to see past the first breeding season. So many people have bought up all the codoms they could find hoping to get rich. I love seeing those same people selling their collections on KS every day. Sure I paid $1000 for my first Pastel. He has already made me that much and his offspring I have kept will continue to for years. In my opinion, the market will stabilize eventually. I guess we'll have to see who is still around and who has jumped ship because they couldn't make back their money in 1 season.

    As far as selective breeding, I think it's great! I love seeing guys like Albey putting up pics of some amazing animals that were produced with care and thought rather than by throwing any two animals together. But for me, they all have value...
    Jamie they absolutely all have value; and I definitely agree that most people don't look into the long term picture.
    ~*Rich
    1.0 100% Het Albino
    1.3 Normal
    1.0 Spider
    0.1 Mojave
    1.0 Pastel 100% Het Goldfinger
    0.1 Pastel 66% Het Goldfinger
    0.1 Pastel PH Goldfinger


  5. #5
    BPnet Lifer muddoc's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    I believe that selective breeding will be the way to go for someone that is trying to keep their profits up while maintaining the same size collection. I know profits are sometimes shunned in conversation, but even though I love my animals as much as the next guy, I do need to think about the money side, as well as my collection size. I am not looking to increase the size of my collection much more than it is now. With maintaining a certain sized collection, the only way to maximize profits is to produce fewer low end animals, produce higher quality animals, or a combination of them both. With that siad, I have a few friends that I have talked to that are grading their animals, and offer a number of animals of a particular morph at a price range. Although I have not done that yet, I think it is a great idea, since the person just looking to get morph A can still come to you (instead of searching for the cheapest price), and the discriminating breeder or keeper can still come to you and spend more for a high quality animal.

    As Albey said in his thread, selective breeding is here now, but I think it will be looked at harder in the next few years. I would also expect to start seeing more people grading their morphs this year. For those that have hand picked their foundation animals (as Albey has), they will be able to command higher prices, because there are people out there that want the best representation of a morph that they can find, without worrying about the cost.
    Tim Bailey
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  6. #6
    BPnet Senior Member jglass38's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    Quote Originally Posted by muddoc View Post
    I believe that selective breeding will be the way to go for someone that is trying to keep their profits up while maintaining the same size collection. I know profits are sometimes shunned in conversation, but even though I love my animals as much as the next guy, I do need to think about the money side, as well as my collection size. I am not looking to increase the size of my collection much more than it is now. With maintaining a certain sized collection, the only way to maximize profits is to produce fewer low end animals, produce higher quality animals, or a combination of them both. With that siad, I have a few friends that I have talked to that are grading their animals, and offer a number of animals of a particular morph at a price range. Although I have not done that yet, I think it is a great idea, since the person just looking to get morph A can still come to you (instead of searching for the cheapest price), and the discriminating breeder or keeper can still come to you and spend more for a high quality animal.

    As Albey said in his thread, selective breeding is here now, but I think it will be looked at harder in the next few years. I would also expect to start seeing more people grading their morphs this year. For those that have hand picked their foundation animals (as Albey has), they will be able to command higher prices, because there are people out there that want the best representation of a morph that they can find, without worrying about the cost.
    Excellent post Tim! Some things to ponder going into next season for sure.

  7. #7
    BPnet Veteran nevohraalnavnoj's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    Quote Originally Posted by muddoc View Post
    I believe that selective breeding will be the way to go for someone that is trying to keep their profits up while maintaining the same size collection. I know profits are sometimes shunned in conversation, but even though I love my animals as much as the next guy, I do need to think about the money side, as well as my collection size. I am not looking to increase the size of my collection much more than it is now. With maintaining a certain sized collection, the only way to maximize profits is to produce fewer low end animals, produce higher quality animals, or a combination of them both. With that siad, I have a few friends that I have talked to that are grading their animals, and offer a number of animals of a particular morph at a price range. Although I have not done that yet, I think it is a great idea, since the person just looking to get morph A can still come to you (instead of searching for the cheapest price), and the discriminating breeder or keeper can still come to you and spend more for a high quality animal.

    As Albey said in his thread, selective breeding is here now, but I think it will be looked at harder in the next few years. I would also expect to start seeing more people grading their morphs this year. For those that have hand picked their foundation animals (as Albey has), they will be able to command higher prices, because there are people out there that want the best representation of a morph that they can find, without worrying about the cost.
    Excellent post, Tim. Selective breeding is a 100% must.

    I also think combining codom morphs will be more important as time passes. If the pastel mojave is only $300 more than a mojave, I think you will see a lot of people wanting the extra gene animal for a marginally higher cost. I think this will especially apply to people who know they have a fixed amount of rack space and time resources, and they want to get the most out of every animal.

    JonV

  8. #8
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    I agree with those who think selective breeding will be "the next big thing" in BP's. However, I don't think breeding BP's is ever going to be a get rich quick scheme. You just can't breed fast enough to keep up with the shrinking dollar (worth only about .75 cents now). Aside from foreign currency and oil, BP's seem as good a place as any to invest a few bucks though.

  9. #9
    BPnet Veteran djansen's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    I think that selective breeding should be stressed to up and coming people in the reptile buisness. Its so easy when your starting out to look at all the lower end color morphs that are way cheaper than a prime example of the morph and just jump in so to speak. I clean cages for someone and its amazing how many snakes I see and how snakes such as a really nice pastel in a bunch of lets say 10 makes me stare for like 10 seconds or have to hold it just a bit and look it over.
    For someone like me just starting out selective breeding is a must and I look forward to breeding some top of the line animals. one thing I am slowly learning is patience and its killing me though lol.
    I'm not your friend buddy!

  10. #10
    BPnet Veteran elevatethis's Avatar
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    Re: Selective Breeding and the Market

    The part that kills BPs as an investment is the overhead. Being able to buy an animal for X and then sell for Y for years and years sounds great until you figure in how much it costs along the way to keep the animal.

    If you aren't breeding in large numbers or don't breed your own feeders, the monthly costs of just maintaining the animals will eat up a lot of any profits you'll see down the road. You can't be paying $2-3 per rat per animal per week and expect to make a profit hatching out a couple of co-dom clutches every year, maybe unless you are dealing with morphs that are still going for $1-2k each...

    I buy my rats wholesale and estimate that it costs me about $100 per animal per year to maintain. Buying feeders and supplies at retail will set you back 2-3x more. This is always an important aspect to factor into your breeding plan.

    Basically, what I'm saying is that you have to reach a certain economy of scale in order to really call it an investment. Otherwise, don't spend more than you can afford to lose, and just enjoy keeping them for the sake of the hobby.

    And as far as selective breeding goes - nicer animals are always going to sell faster than crappier examples of morphs. "Selectively bred" animals are going to be a marketing tool used by sellers to get more for what they produce - and rightfully so - animals from strong lines are going to be better than those that are not. And then again, what is considered to be a "nice" specimen is very subjective anyway. Best you can do is buy animals that appeal to you the most, regardless of what the seller thinks.
    -Brad

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