Power feeding?

[dr del]

Hi,

Was just reading a thread that mentioned power feeding and in Tim's post he mentions "correct power feeding" and I agreed with him that would be a good topic for discussion in more depth here.

So,

What are the circumstances in which you would consider it?

What are the signs to tell if you are still doing more good than harm to the animal?

Any one have a checklist others could reffer too to decide if it is the right thing for their animal?

Do you disagree or agree with the practice and are there mitigating circumstances for both?


dr del

[BChambers]

This is a difficult subject, since metabolic rates vary between individual animals-sometimes greatly. For example, I have two '07 holdback females-a pastel and a pewter-that have been fed on the same schedule (every 4-5 days). These snakes hatched within a month of each other, yet the pastel weighs 1100 gms right now, while the pewter is at 674!

I would venture to say that any young ball that was showing signs of obesity, or was having trouble with elimination, is probably being overfed. But an animal showing steady growth in length and weight, (without looking like a little blood python on steroids!) is probably doing fine.

Sorry to be unable to be more precise, but like so many aspects of this hobby, everything depends on watching your animals closely and being aware of how things are going.

[muddoc]

Since I guess I kind of fueled the fire resulting in the creation of this thread, I will post up my take on Power Feeding.

I saw a bit ago on another thread, that someone was asking; What is Power Feeding. I don't know that there is a definition, and I don't know exactly how I would put it into words. However, I guess power feeding can be described as feeding more than the usual or recommended food items.

With that said, I have been/am guilty of feeding more than the norm. I feed some (I say some, becasue not all, and certainly not any snake that I intend to sell) of my hatchlings every three days. This is mostly done to "important" (it's in the eye of the beholder) males that I would like to breed at 6-8 months of age. Once that animal gets to 500 grams, or once it stops taking 2 meals a week, I discontinue the increased feed rate. Many of the males that I attempt this with, will quit taking the secon meal a week near the 300 gram mark.
An explanation of why I think this is not harmful, and some input from other sources I have spoken with is as follows. I believe (and this has been reaffirmed by other breeders large and small) that evolution has programmed these animals to grow as fast as possible soon after hatching. This only makes sense, as a large snake has fewer predators than a small hatchling Ball Python. I believe that these snakes may actually have a higher metabolism at an early age that allows them to take in more food and grow faster when they are small. I have been wanting to take a closer look at this theory, but have yet to do so. I think that hatchling Ball Pythons may actually be slightly warmer, and spend more time on the hot end of the tank, in an attempt to digest slightly faster. I may have to take some temps with the temp gun this year in an attempt to put some numbers to this theory. Also, I believe this is happening in the wild, as every year, imported wild caught balls that are believed to be less than 8 months old come in with some pretty astounding weights.

I do know of a couple of people that have fed hatchlings as often as every other day without any adverse effects. I am not saying that I condone, or have ever tried this, and I certainly do not recommend it. However, I wanted to relay something that I have seen and heard of in the past. I do believe that the act of "overfeeding" can be dangerous to yearling and older animals, and would never try it. However, I have yet to see an obese Ball that is under 6 months of age. Please feel free to question anything that I have written, and I always love a good discussion. I merely wanted to see this in the Advanced Husbandry section, as I do believe it has a place, and someone with a good bit of experience may want to try it and need a little guidance.

Regards,

[grunt_11b]

Thanks for taking the time and defining power feeding. I was wondering because I have a black pastel female that'll eat and then 3 or 4 days later be cruisin and looking for food again.. She was 160 or so grams when I got her in Feb. She is about 800g now. All my other snakes don't do this. Except maybe my pastel female but she doesn't do this every week like the black does. I just didn't want to be overfeeding my snakes is why I asked.

[dr del]

Hi,

Thanks for all the info.

Tim,

Do you ever see any ball pythons with pinheads? By that I mean a head disproportionately small for their body size as this was often given as an indicator that the snake has been power fed in other species.

The faster growth rate makes sense as a survival mechanism but I imagine they live a slightly more sedentary lifestyle in captivity and wondered if that could lead to problems.


dr del

[muddoc]

Hi,

Thanks for all the info.

Tim,

Do you ever see any ball pythons with pinheads? By that I mean a head disproportionately small for their body size as this was often given as an indicator that the snake has been power fed in other species.

The faster growth rate makes sense as a survival mechanism but I imagine they live a slightly more sedentary lifestyle in captivity and wondered if that could lead to problems.


dr del

Derek,
I understand the pinhead thing, but I have never noticed it in any of my animals. As for the sedentary lifestyle of Captive animals, I definitely think it could be a problem. This is exactly why closely monitoring your animals is important. However, if my theory has any merit, the increased metabolism in the very young snakes will help them have fewer problems from an increased feeding regimen.

[Gloryhound]

I have a couple additional questions concerning this:

1. With the increased feeding when they are young does it affect the snakes long term growth rates?

(With this I mean if you feed one snake 2 times a week and it gets to 500 grams and then you have another snake that was only fed once a week at 500 grams and now you switch then to a regular once a week feeding do either of these snakes exhibit faster growth than the other while going into sub adult hood?)

2. Is it still classified as power feeding if you are offering smaller prey than the snake can reasonably take? Pinky rats instead of fuzzy rats?

3. Has any noticeable difference been seen between males and females who have been fed using this practice?

The reason I ask this is we recently purchased two (1.1) baby Mojave's from a smaller breeder and he was trying to feed them on an every 3 day schedule. The female had three meals and the male 2 meals before we got them. We have kept them on the three day schedule with the intention of dropping them back to 4-5 day schedule around 300 grams then every week at 600 grams. These are definitely keepers in our collection, but I just want to make sure I am not doing something that is going to have long term affects on them.

[muddoc]

I have a couple additional questions concerning this:

1. With the increased feeding when they are young does it affect the snakes long term growth rates?

(With this I mean if you feed one snake 2 times a week and it gets to 500 grams and then you have another snake that was only fed once a week at 500 grams and now you switch then to a regular once a week feeding do either of these snakes exhibit faster growth than the other while going into sub adult hood?)

That is a hard question to answer, simply based on the fact that each animal is different. Even animals from the same clutch have growth rate differences. There again, define long term. Remember that since Ball Python breeding is relatively new, I would bet that there are very few 15 year old Captive Bred Ball Pythons around, and the ones that do exist, probably don't have very good records kept on them. I hear alot of people talk about long term effects on Ball Pythons by doing x, y or z, but I don't think they have been looked at closely for long enough to really hypothesize about long term effects. I can tell you that I have three male Ball Pythons (Albino, Het Pied and Hypo) that were fed like this until 500 grams, and then switched to every 7 days, and they were all over 1200 grams by 18 months old. They are now 4 years old and are over 1500 grams. That's as long term as I can tell you from my collection.

2. Is it still classified as power feeding if you are offering smaller prey than the snake can reasonably take? Pinky rats instead of fuzzy rats?

I don't know how to answer that one either, as power feeding has no real definition. However, to me, I would still classify it as power feeding, since even though it is a smaller meal, you are still introducing food to the stomach before the last meal is completely digested.

3. Has any noticeable difference been seen between males and females who have been fed using this practice?

The reason I ask this is we recently purchased two (1.1) baby Mojave's from a smaller breeder and he was trying to feed them on an every 3 day schedule. The female had three meals and the male 2 meals before we got them. We have kept them on the three day schedule with the intention of dropping them back to 4-5 day schedule around 300 grams then every week at 600 grams. These are definitely keepers in our collection, but I just want to make sure I am not doing something that is going to have long term affects on them.

It doesn't look like I am much help here, as I don't have a good answer to this question either. Mostly I can't answer, because I have never power fed any of my females. I have occasionally put a female on a 5 day feeding schedule, but have not seen a reason to put size on them quick, as they will not mature for at least 18 months (minimum).

[SlitherinSisters]

Thanks for all the information! I love this site!


Just curious......what does an obese BP look like?


My girl is under weight and I've assit feed her a few times trying to get her back on track (I've also corrected my tank thanks to everyone here). But when she starts eating on her own I'm thinking power feeding would be a good idea? She's 52 grams.

[Spaniard]

Just curious......what does an obese BP look like?

Excess skin between scales is a good way of knowing if your bp is obese.